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Magic Items with Simultaneous Spell effects and calculating cost.


Rules Questions


So I've been looking for a while to find a concrete way of calculating an item that activates multiple spells simultaneously. I understand the game mostly seems to avoid this but every power has a price.

Only real example I've found is the Snapleaf, that items cost is 750 gp. As a single use item that simultaneously grants the user Invisibility (Lvl 2 spell minimum caster of Lvl 3) and Feather Fall (lvl 1 spell minimum caster of lvl 1).

My attempt at Calculating that based on the magic item creation charts was as shown

Single Use (Spell level x caster level x 50) 1 x 1 x 50 & 2 x 3 x 50

Adding the two spells together still just comes out as 350. So taking into account the simultaneous casting of the spells, the cost is another x2.15 (rounded).

Mostly looking for if there is a concrete cost.

My end goal is for my wizard to have a sort of charm bracelet for when combat hits without warning. So I'd be looking to have a 1/per day casting of what could be a number of spells (mostly thinking level 1 spells) I know that things like Mage Armor or Shield bring in the whole AC based costs so lets assume we're excluding those type of buffs.


Velx wrote:

My attempt at Calculating that based on the magic item creation charts was as shown

Single Use (Spell level x caster level x 50) 1 x 1 x 50 & 2 x 3 x 50

Adding the two spells together still just comes out as 350. So taking into account the simultaneous casting of the spells, the cost is another x2.15 (rounded).

You're forgetting that the spells have Caster Level 5, as you can see in the description of the Snapleaf.

1 x 5 x 50 = 250
&
2 x 5 x 50 = 500
= 750

Velx wrote:

Mostly looking for if there is a concrete cost.

My end goal is for my wizard to have a sort of charm bracelet for when combat hits without warning. So I'd be looking to have a 1/per day casting of what could be a number of spells (mostly thinking level 1 spells) I know that things like Mage Armor or Shield bring in the whole AC based costs so lets assume we're excluding those type of buffs.

Alright, the first thing to know about designing new magic items is that it quickly gets out of hand, and that it's easy to exploit the 'Estimated Magic Item Gold Piece Values' table.

Secondly. There are many items which are vastly underpriced, or introduces new mechanics which becomes very different when applied to other spells. Designing new items based on these faulty examples will result in more exploits.

I.E. designing new items based on Snapleaf. Which is basically like having two potions always within reach, coupled with an Immediate action activation, instead of the Standard action it usually is.
Ask yourself why anyone would buy potions if you could just buy two potions crammed into an Immediate-action Wondrous Item for the same price?

Better yet, if we use the Snapleaf to draw the conclusion that "multiple magical effects activated at the same time have no additional cost", then we could make a consumable which has 15 Cure Lesser Wounds crammed into it for the same cost as one potion of Cure Serious Wounds. (15d8+15 vs 3d8+5)

This was clearly not intended, and the question becomes where to draw the line.

And I believe that you've already found the answer to that question.

---------------------------------------

With all that said, you might want to consider a pearl of power to re-cast Mage Armor on yourself. Since the duration is 1 hour/CL most wizards just cast it in the morning and the evening.


Yeah, unfortunately making custom magical items is an art as much as a science and is very exploitable.

You're probably better off just looking at another method to get what you want.

At very low levels a wand of Mage Armor is better than casting it yourself. The wand has a duration of only an hour, but that isn't much worse than what you can normally cast. Just recast it every hour while you're adventuring.

For other effects, you might have to do more exploring to find a way to get the effect you're after.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

What you're trying to buy is action economy, which is one of the most valuable resources in the game. Your Snapleaf example is hard to generalize because one of the spells involved is already an immediate action, so you're not truly making it all that much faster.

If you want specific advice, we need specific examples. I'll go ahead and say, if I were the GM, you would be paying through the roof for this. Two spells at once will be expensive, and three would be hideously so.

Some examples: a bracelet that casts vanish and expeditious retreat as a single standard action, at CL9, I'd price at 50*1*9+50*5*9 = 2700 gp for once ever, going way up for per day uses. Basically treating one spell as quickened with a minimum CL to match.

To put three in you'd have to make one of the spells a free action, which I'll just call a +9 metamagic effect, so now CL19 and 50*1*19+50*5*19+50*10*19= 15200 for a once ever version.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Some important considerations:
Snapleaf is balanced by the use restriction- only while falling. For Invisibility, this is more restrictive than needing a standard action.

Snapleaf also has an immediate action casting spell as one of the spells cast, meaning the spells could already be cast in the same round.

This should probably not be reusable. Action economy is one of the biggest balancing points in the game, and you should be paying whenever you break it.

Keep it to two spells. Without the restriction of Snapleaf, the lower level spell should be priced as a spell of four levels higher as per Quicken, and CL adjusted accordingly. Now you’re casting a standard and swift as a standard action- before you have Quicken Spell, that’s doubling your buffing, and after you have it, you’re able to triple-cast buffs (paying for that privilege).


Thank you, using quickened on one and only using a second was sort of where I landed on it as well at work today.

I'm aware that action economy is a big balancing points, which is why I stated I know the game seems to stray away from it. It was a question however that I found no other examples of so I opted to ask it. Still interested in other takes.

I totally agree that each additional spell should increase the price exponentially as well. I know that custom item creation can get insane, one of my players in one of my campaigns asked about making an amulet that uses the spell shield continuously and based it off the base spell cost.

This is also why I said to exclude Mage armor or shield in thinking of this because I know that brings the AC cost into it which alters the formula greatly.

Not too worried about Mage Armor at this point for my Wizard since he's at level 11 at this point so it lasts half the day, and I do have a handful of Pearls of Power at this point to cover me there and other utility spells.

The big reason for asking was again, it's a question I haven't seen asked.

Plus as my Wizard is very adept with his bow, being able to in a pinch cast like Gravity Bow and Flame Arrow in one round instead of two, could help get into combat a little faster instead of buffing for 2-3 rounds and finding everything Dead as my spells slowly fade away.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Gravity Bow and Flaming Arrow strike me as things that shouldn’t be put in items. Flaming Arrow is just replicating the Flaming property, and there’s probably a reason the Impact property can only apply to melee weapons.

Some approaches:
Flaming bow.
The Contingent Scroll spell and scrolls of Gravity Bow, activating when you load ammunition. (Eventually Contingency will let you use a higher slot to remove the small cost.)
Lesser Rod of Quicken and Gloves of Storing.
Lesser Rod of Extend and pre-casting. (Gets you at least 100 minutes on Flame Arrow.)
Quicken Spell.

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