If a target has multiple effects that cause a 50% miss effects do you roll them separately or do you add them together?
i.e. High level Air Barrier and Wind Ward Hexes from a Shaman Wind Spirit.
Air Barrier (Su): The shaman creates an invisible shell of air that grants her a +4 armor bonus to AC. At 7th level and every 4 levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 2. At 13th level, this barrier causes incoming arrows, rays, and other ranged attacks requiring an attack roll against her to suffer a 50% miss chance. The shaman can use this barrier for 1 hour per shaman level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-hour increments.
Wind Ward (Su): The shaman can touch a willing creature (including herself ) and grants a ward of wind. This ward lasts for a number of rounds equal to the shaman’s level. When a warded creature is attacked with an arrow, ray, or other ranged attack that requires an attack roll, that attack suffers a 20% miss chance. At 8th level, the ward lasts for 1 minute for every level the shaman possesses. At 16th level, the miss chance increases to 50%. Once affected, the creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 24 hours.
Thanks
There may be instances where certain defenses use the equivalent of a 'miss chance' but are not really the same thing, however. A blink spell, for instance, is more of a 'not-there' check, so it may be possible that if you had displacement you could have to check to see if you hit the actual target and then check for the blink miss chance (though it also conveys a actual miss chance as well, for being invisible during that momentary blink, as noted).
I don't believe that multiple effects that do the same 'miss chance' should stack or apply. You should only use the highest. For instance, two effects that 'deflect' attacks, like entropic shield and the air barrier in your example. However, if you were also in fog or smoke, the concealment miss chance might come before the deflection chance.
historically I've rolled them separately. It's demonstrative and easy for players that aren't familiar with probability/math.
Odds(chance) don't stack additively in that manner (exempli gratia: 50% miss chance & 50% miss chance ≠ 100% miss chance. It is 75% miss chance). Convert to "to hit"(success) fractions and multiply (1/2*1/2=1/4 to hit or 3/4 to miss).
PS. Just a note: Neither of these are Concealment.
Indeed going on the description they are both deflecting an accurate attack as opposed to Concealment which has the effect of causing the attacker to aim for the wrong place.
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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
I just roll once using the best chance.
Roll them separately. If you have blur on and you are standing mostly behind a wall they do their thing separately, you have a chance to hit the wall, you don't hit it and now you have a chance to miss due to blur...
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A good way of thinking about it :
Blink - is your target present?
Displacement - are you aiming in the wrong spot?
Mirror image - did you swing at the wrong image?
The first two get miss chances, and the third is a roll for which one is targeted. All would be seperate checks.
Also, if the target is invisible, invisibility superseds displacement and mirror image, but not blink.
RealAlchemy wrote: Also, if the target is invisible, invisibility superseds displacement and mirror image, but not blink. Which is why, when facing a caster with lots of mirror images, you might just be better off closing your eyes for the 50% miss chance...
keerawa wrote: RealAlchemy wrote: Also, if the target is invisible, invisibility superseds displacement and mirror image, but not blink. Which is why, when facing a caster with lots of mirror images, you might just be better off closing your eyes for the 50% miss chance... Which is why most of my martial characters take blind fighting
Name Violation wrote: keerawa wrote: RealAlchemy wrote: Also, if the target is invisible, invisibility superseds displacement and mirror image, but not blink. Which is why, when facing a caster with lots of mirror images, you might just be better off closing your eyes for the 50% miss chance... Which is why most of my martial characters take blind fighting Which is why casters take readied actions to use spells or step away as soon as the fighter closes his eyes.
This is funny because I spent 4500 gp on a wand of mirror image for a magus in PFS.
I thought there was a rule saying that concealment doesn't stack, but I can't find it now. If I find it later I'll post it here.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
There is, but with the proliferation of miss chances that aren't concealment, there has been no rule written about how to stack those.
Concealment wrote: Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. Make the attack normally—if the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance d% roll to avoid being struck. Multiple concealment conditions do not stack.
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