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Why Wizards DON'T rule the world?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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As the title.

Everyone knows that Wizards have the capability of basically ruling over the entirety of Golarion (or whatever homebrew world you use that adheres to the traditional Pathfinder rules), but in most all of these adventure paths and such, the Wizard types aren't always the ones in a position of absolute power, which appears odd.

So, I'll start off with the first obvious answer:

"I actually am, but I'm just behind-the-scenes and nobody knows that it's me pulling all the strings. If someone truly knew my intentions and capabilities, they would try to overthrow me for abuse and corruption of power. Having a figurehead taking the heat for me lets me work without all the risk of doing what I do best, which is everything."

But, maybe there are answers that others can give that may make more sense?


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The actual reason is because that isn't the sort of world people generally want to play in. Your typical game setting and the game setting implied by using the rules as written are two very different things (For those who haven't heard of it, look up the Tippyverse). Most people want medieval Europe with magic and monsters thrown on top, without regards to how different such a world would be.

Any other answer is just trying to find a way to justify that, even when it doesn't make sense.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards." Powerful spellcasters tend to keep other powerful spellcasters in check, if only by reputation.


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Because "ruling" the world is a lot of work.

I mean, seriously, what does it benefit a typical wizard to "rule" a kingdom or empire? Wealth? No wizard needs money after after a certain point. Power? They're already as powerful as it gets. Prestige? If a high-level Wizard wants that, they have it.

What does a "typical" high-level Wizard want? The ability to make additional magical discoveries. Being the ruler of a kingdom so gets in the way of that.

Very few people actually want to "rule." The effort to rule is immense - far beyond the effort it would take to simply "take over." The main thing that would-be conquerors want is for no one else to tell them what to do. And by the time you're casting 9th level spells, there aren't a lot of people outside your peer group who are going to tell you what to do.

"Rabithar the Black! This is the representative of King Muckety Muck! You have to pay your taxes."
"No."
"But you must!"
*polymorph others to turn the tax collector's horse into a toad*
"No."
"Uhm. Ok."

Or "You want money? Fine." (Hands over a bunch of cash taken from a dungeon.) "Now, will you go away?"

So, I think it mostly comes to the idea that Wizards don't rule because if you're the kind of person who only cares about temporal authority over others, you probably didn't become a Wizard in the first place.


@ Jeraa: I suppose I should've clarified that I wasn't looking for meta-gamey answers, since it's quite clear that most people don't want to play a game that Spellcasters rule everything unchecked, and as such don't design worlds that way, even if it's sensible. But if I read your post right, you're saying that most other in-game answers wouldn't make sense?

Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards." Powerful spellcasters tend to keep other powerful spellcasters in check, if only by reputation.

Possible, but a skilled enough Wizard would account for defeating anyone, even another Wizard of equal (or even superior) caliber, or even a rogue version of himself.


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Jeraa wrote:

The actual reason is because that isn't the sort of world people generally want to play in. Your typical game setting and the game setting implied by using the rules as written are two very different things (For those who haven't heard of it, look up the Tippyverse). Most people want medieval Europe with magic and monsters thrown on top, without regards to how different such a world would be.

Any other answer is just trying to find a way to justify that, even when it doesn't make sense.

+1

The bones of Golarian and Pathfinder in general don't hold up to any real form of scrutiny (economically, developmentally, environmentally, or socially). Ultimately the reason that everywhere isn't some wizard/cleric/druid ruled utopia/dystopia is the same reason the value of 500gp in silver dust never fluctuates or how a forest can somehow have a good 20 species of apex predators happily coexisting: it's fun/easy.


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Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards."

Plus clerics, demigods, demon lords, angels, and many other beings with Wish/Miracle-grade superpowers.


Matthew Downie wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards."
Plus clerics, demigods, demon lords, angels, and many other beings with Wish/Miracle-grade superpowers.

Except Wizards beat all of them no problem. There is nothing a Cleric can do that a Wizard can't, and Wizards can summon and defeat the other stuff you mentioned with just one spell.

Lantern Lodge

I really liked how in the Dragonlance world of Krynn, using magic, especially powerful magic, fatigued the caster. That was a nice balance to demi-godness that is a high level spellcaster. (and I always play casters so I am not railing against that)

Something like that would explain it as well, though not within the Pathfinder rules.

Scarab Sages

Because Anti-Magic Field exists and Mage's Disjunction doesn't always work.


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There is an actual setting idea called "Tippyverse" tbat explores this idea. Basically, powerful wizards rule the world and build magic systems that drastically improve peoples' lives.

Golarion, though, requires some base suspension of belief to maintain setting fidelity.


GM Excalibur wrote:
Because Anti-Magic Field exists and Mage's Disjunction doesn't always work.

No, but Spellbane does. So does Wall of Suppression if your caster level is high enough.


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Because ruling over everything is a 24/7 job and they'd never be able to prepare any spells.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards." Powerful spellcasters tend to keep other powerful spellcasters in check, if only by reputation.

Possible, but a skilled enough Wizard would account for defeating anyone, even another Wizard of equal (or even superior) caliber, or even a rogue version of himself.

And other skilled wizards are making the exact same plans.

It's sort of like the Cold War and the concept of "mutually assured destruction."

Sure, you might have thought of a billion possible contingencies, but if you're a wizard smart enough to get to 9th level spell casting, you know that every other wizard in your peer group is super smart, too.

I'll paraphrase an old saying. There are old wizards and bold wizards, but there are no old, bold wizards.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In Discworld wizards are all power-hungry, back-stabbing jerks that spend so much time fighting one another that everyone breathes a sigh of relief that they spend more time offing one another for power instead of ruling countries. It should be noted in Discworld the plural of the word wizard is WAR.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards."
Plus clerics, demigods, demon lords, angels, and many other beings with Wish/Miracle-grade superpowers.
Except Wizards beat all of them no problem.

Have I lost the ability to distinguish when people are being serious?

Or do wizards have powers that make them invincible against Demon Lords, etc?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There is a power in the universe that prevents this, greater than even the most powerful of the Gods, little is known of these enigmatic, apparently all powerful beings, but some whisper of 'the writers' and hope that the displeasure of these omnipotent beings never turns on them.


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I would assume gaining experience in one of these worlds also requires a lot more than "kill a bunch of stuff". Learning to be a wizard might require killing as many goblins as possible in the game, but would require years of study and hard work in the game world, as well as expenses in the form of books and tutors. Not to mention that you still have to live your life (and pay the bills) on top of that. Getting to level 10 might be something a single wizard in a generation would achieve in any given city/nation.

As for the power dynamic, wizards are NOT so OP that similarly leveled clerics/druids would be no sweat. And don't forget that demons, angels, dragons, and whatever else can also learn to cast wizard spells. And they probably have more time/resources to accomplish it.


Because powerful Wizards (Demons, Angels, Clerics, etc.) realize what a piss-poor state the Prime would be in if high-level casters were fighting over it all of the time. Consequently, they have formed an agreement to not directly interfere with Prime Material politics (and to band together to deal with any powerful entity that does not agree to or follow the rules). They've also made an agreement on the amount of resources that they're allowed to contribute to their Preferred Champions and their Non-Preferred Champions based on the champion's power-level.


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Dave Justus wrote:
There is a power in the universe that prevents this, greater than even the most powerful of the Gods, little is known of these enigmatic, apparently all powerful beings, but some whisper of 'the writers' and hope that the displeasure of these omnipotent beings never turns on them.

"And lo, someday shall come the Breaking of the Fourth Wall and the character shall become the player and the player the character and your lampshades shall provide no protection."


Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards." Powerful spellcasters tend to keep other powerful spellcasters in check, if only by reputation.

I imagine the only thing you can get high level wizards to agree on independently is "those other Wizards should not be running the world."

There's also the fact that high level spellcasters are very rare (there are very important people on Golarion who are like level 12), and probably either settle into a niche below their potential because it's comfortable, or go off exploring worlds beyond the one they were born on.


Going to agree with the idea that it isn’t worth the effort for them. I’d expect most to want a nice big plot of land with some sorts of servants. But what benefit do they gain for the massive work of ruling an actual kingdom?


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If you can cast miracle at will, you are effectively a high level wizard.

The pantheon of deities can cast miracle at-will.
Therefore the pantheon is actually a collection of wizards.
The pantheon rules the world.

Ergo, wizards do rule the world.


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Many of the most notable rulers of Golarion are wizards, sorcerers or witches.

  • Nethys (originally a wizard)
  • Aroden (originally a wizard)
  • Tar-Baphon
  • Geb
  • Arazni
  • Nex
  • Xin
  • all Runelords
  • Razmir
  • Abrogail Thrune II
  • Elvanna

In addition: Kelesh's power is maintained through wishcraft and bound genies.

It's not that arcane casters have not traditionally ruled large portions of Golarion, or that large portions of Golarion are not still ruled by arcane casters.

It's that there are only just so many truly powerful wizards that are willing to be burdened with the mantle of leadership. A significant number of the truly powerful simply have no desire to be locked into the never-ending and utterly mundane task of ruling a nation.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just a thought, if I was a 20th level wizard I know I wouldn't want to rule a country. I have enough power to be free from the normal laws of the land and I can choose to interact with society how I please. Doesn't mean I'll be amoral monster, just means I'm one the few that are truely free. If I choose to rule a country I'll have a great deal of responsibility, when that powerful that must feel like you're bound by the heaviest chains in the world.


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Because whenever they try, a group of 4-6 adventurers come out of nowhere and stop them.


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Matthew Downie wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the answer may well be "other wizards."
Plus clerics, demigods, demon lords, angels, and many other beings with Wish/Miracle-grade superpowers.
Except Wizards beat all of them no problem.

Have I lost the ability to distinguish when people are being serious?

Or do wizards have powers that make them invincible against Demon Lords, etc?

Lantern Archon Strike force. Wizard automatically goes first via Divination shenanigans and gates lots of Lantern Archons that auto-hit for 2D6 damage each and bypass all anti-magic shenanigans. A given Demon Lord would end up killing an Astral Projection that would still have to deal with Lantern Archons shooting it to death the following round. If he kills the Lantern Archons, the Wizard can just gate in more and repeat as necessary, since he can just create an endless amount of Pearls of Power to recall his spellcasting.

He also wouldn't have to pay the Lantern Archons; the opportunity to rid the world of a great evil that threatens the heavens' existence is most certainly worth showing up and slaying big bad demons, even if it might mean dying in the process.

And that's just using a single spell. He could use Time Stop and constantly keep gating Lanterns to truly and absolutely nuke the demon Lord before it even acts.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
GM Excalibur wrote:
Because Anti-Magic Field exists and Mage's Disjunction doesn't always work.
No, but Spellbane does. So does Wall of Suppression if your caster level is high enough.

The actual name is Aroden’s Spellbane. It’s probably a pretty uncommon spell to know.

My answers:
Those who want to be rulers take easier routes than becoming powerful Wizards.
Those who become powerful Wizards don’t generally decide to switch to politics.
They do and have done so. Razmir and the leader of the Drow both high-level Wizards ruling nations. The Runelords were Wizards who did this back in the day (shame about that apocalypse). Nex and Geb. Tar-Baphon.
Other casters are more powerful. While Wizards are the strongest in paper, a Sorcerer of a given age will probably be able to cast higher level spells than a Wizard of the same age because of starting age differences.
It tends to not work out well for the people, so people are wary. Wizards who show too much ambition have a long time to be stopped before they’re chucking around the big spells.
They have better options. One Wizard in the setting said, “Screw it, I’m going to go live on the sun instead of dealing with people.” There are a couple hanging out on other planes or demiplanes.
The system is set up to make it hard. Wizards require a lot of training, requiring money, requiring sponsorship. To get more than four spells of each spell level, a Wizard needs peers or even more money for scrolls. Wizards spend a long time learning, and probably some time after that paying off debts. And if the sponsors are supernatural, that’s another matter to deal with.
Nothing stops enemies from teaming up. Desperate enemies might make bargains with powerful outsiders, or hire assassins. Lots of work to deal with.
It’s a lot of work getting the support of the people, too. Most nations have ingrained systems, so a Wizard will be trying to overthrow an established government, impose order on a chaotic or disparate people, settling for ruling somewhere small, or declaring themselves ruler of some patch of wilderness.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Story > rules.


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Multiple parts:

1) Most people are NPC classes, not PC classes
2) Most people don't rise above level 5. Sure, that's powerful enough to cast fireball, but falls well short or world domination.
3) Above level 5, you're looking at people who are regionally famous. At level 11 and above you're looking at people who are "legends" (based on the Spell Legend Lore).

So you're looking at a small of people who could potentially be powerful enough to avoid being caught by the normal sorts of problems that anyone would run into. A low enough level wizard has to contend with being caught asleep and unprepared. They don't have access to spells like teleport or plane shift to get them out of danger.

As to why those who do make it to higher levels don't often try to take over the world:
1) Not interest, or rather more interested in other things. Usually magical research.
2) Running a country is hard work
3) If you only want to be in charge for the personal benefits, you can use magic to create all the personal benefits. And don't have to piss of lots of people to do it.
4) Even if they don't have a real chance, having people try to kill you all the time can be annoying.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lantern Archon Strike force. Wizard automatically goes first via Divination shenanigans and gates lots of Lantern Archons that auto-hit for 2D6 damage each and bypass all anti-magic shenanigans. A given Demon Lord would end up killing an Astral Projection that would still have to deal with Lantern Archons shooting it to death the following round. If he kills the Lantern Archons, the Wizard can just gate in more and repeat as necessary, since he can just create an endless amount of Pearls of Power to recall his spellcasting.

1) Divination school doesn't automatically guarantee going first (though your odds aren't bad, but not assured when you're up against Mythic)

2) Lantern Archons don't auto hit, they make ranged touch attacks with a +3 bonus.

3) Pretty sure even though it says all it doesn't bypass Epic DR (since they've been around long before Mythic Adventures).

Edit: Went and double checked on this, Dev comments are that attacks like this (aka Smite) would bypass DR/Epic, but that's also from the Playtest time period so...


There's also the general theme in Golarion that "Civilization (and Magic) used to be a lot more advanced" but a bunch of sequential catastrophes have set things back so that most of the best spellcasters now barely hold a candle to the 2nd quintile of the Aztlani spellcasters.

You can't really have that as one of your narrative themes if Wizards are running everything. Heck, the goal in the first Adventure Path was "stop a Wizard from being able to run everything" (a theme that's repeated a couple of times).


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Demiplanes.

Screw your crappy world. I'm going to make my own.


Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lantern Archon Strike force. Wizard automatically goes first via Divination shenanigans and gates lots of Lantern Archons that auto-hit for 2D6 damage each and bypass all anti-magic shenanigans. A given Demon Lord would end up killing an Astral Projection that would still have to deal with Lantern Archons shooting it to death the following round. If he kills the Lantern Archons, the Wizard can just gate in more and repeat as necessary, since he can just create an endless amount of Pearls of Power to recall his spellcasting.

1) Divination school doesn't automatically guarantee going first (though your odds aren't bad, but not assured when you're up against Mythic)

2) Lantern Archons don't auto hit, they make ranged touch attacks with a +3 bonus.

3) Pretty sure even though it says all it doesn't bypass Epic DR (since they've been around long before Mythic Adventures).

Edit: Went and double checked on this, Dev comments are that attacks like this (aka Smite) would bypass DR/Epic, but that's also from the Playtest time period so...

Fair enough. The Beholder Helm (Cyclops Helm X9) would be more than good enough for this, so a Divination Wizard isn't necessary.

If the creature is large enough, their Touch A.C. is poop. So, it's good against Dragons and Tarrasques. Demon Lords are a mite stronger, but still easily manageable by other Wizard spells or summons that he can choose from.

The text says it bypasses all DR, full stop. You could even have DR/Non-lantern Archon, and it wouldn't technically work against Lantern Archons.

There are many other things at the Wizard's disposal that he may not even need to use this kind of strategy, so debunking one strategy isn't going to help.


Doomed Hero wrote:

Demiplanes.

Screw your crappy world. I'm going to make my own.

You would think that to run a universe sim you only need information about all rules of the universe, but you also need to figure out how to power it. So then I built the Demiplane of Perpetual Motion Machines, but the extra energy caused it to collapse into a singularity before I plugged the universe simulator in.


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Once again I point out that if this is the attitude of every level 20 wizard the barbarian at level one should save the world by announcing power attack during introductions, and save the world the trouble.

But if you want a more story based reason?

Nex and Geb. The story of two wizards trying to penis measure and permanently magic scorching a large chunk of world should serve as a cautionary tale to anyone with an int over 15, not as encouragement.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lantern Archon Strike force. Wizard automatically goes first via Divination shenanigans and gates lots of Lantern Archons that auto-hit for 2D6 damage each and bypass all anti-magic shenanigans. A given Demon Lord would end up killing an Astral Projection that would still have to deal with Lantern Archons shooting it to death the following round. If he kills the Lantern Archons, the Wizard can just gate in more and repeat as necessary, since he can just create an endless amount of Pearls of Power to recall his spellcasting.

1) Divination school doesn't automatically guarantee going first (though your odds aren't bad, but not assured when you're up against Mythic)

2) Lantern Archons don't auto hit, they make ranged touch attacks with a +3 bonus.

3) Pretty sure even though it says all it doesn't bypass Epic DR (since they've been around long before Mythic Adventures).

Edit: Went and double checked on this, Dev comments are that attacks like this (aka Smite) would bypass DR/Epic, but that's also from the Playtest time period so...

Fair enough. The Beholder Helm (Cyclops Helm X9) would be more than good enough for this, so a Divination Wizard isn't necessary.

If the creature is large enough, their Touch A.C. is poop. So, it's good against Dragons and Tarrasques. Demon Lords are a mite stronger, but still easily manageable by other Wizard spells or summons that he can choose from.

The text says it bypasses all DR, full stop. You could even have DR/Non-lantern Archon, and it wouldn't technically work against Lantern Archons.

There are many other things at the Wizard's disposal that he may not even need to use this kind of strategy, so debunking one strategy isn't going to help.

Cyclops Helm doesn’t work for initiative without some way to use an immediate action before your first initiative count, and if we’re letting NPC Wizards use them, then we’re letting demon lords and other powerful enemies use them.

There is a certain degree to which NPCs can’t optimize. It’s unfair to not allow meta-reasons for why Wizards don’t rule things, but give only Wizards meta-knowledge of how to game the system.

So another answer is: Wizards can’t metagame, unless they’re PCs, and there are rarely more than six or so PCs.


Immediate Action can be taken at any time, even when it's not your turn (AKA pre-initiative). He wouldn't be able to Quicken cast or use some other Swift Action option on his initiative counter, but he doesn't have to.


He may be referring to this odd little rule.

Quote:
You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Melkiador wrote:

He may be referring to this odd little rule.

Quote:
You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

That’d be the one. Probably a way to build around it, and I know it’s not necessary, but you’re giving NPC Wizards rather PC-like insight into mechanics that you aren’t letting anybody else take advantage of.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lantern Archon Strike force. Wizard automatically goes first via Divination shenanigans and gates lots of Lantern Archons that auto-hit for 2D6 damage each and bypass all anti-magic shenanigans. A given Demon Lord would end up killing an Astral Projection that would still have to deal with Lantern Archons shooting it to death the following round. If he kills the Lantern Archons, the Wizard can just gate in more and repeat as necessary, since he can just create an endless amount of Pearls of Power to recall his spellcasting.

1) Divination school doesn't automatically guarantee going first (though your odds aren't bad, but not assured when you're up against Mythic)

2) Lantern Archons don't auto hit, they make ranged touch attacks with a +3 bonus.

3) Pretty sure even though it says all it doesn't bypass Epic DR (since they've been around long before Mythic Adventures).

Edit: Went and double checked on this, Dev comments are that attacks like this (aka Smite) would bypass DR/Epic, but that's also from the Playtest time period so...

Fair enough. The Beholder Helm (Cyclops Helm X9) would be more than good enough for this, so a Divination Wizard isn't necessary.

If the creature is large enough, their Touch A.C. is poop. So, it's good against Dragons and Tarrasques. Demon Lords are a mite stronger, but still easily manageable by other Wizard spells or summons that he can choose from.

The text says it bypasses all DR, full stop. You could even have DR/Non-lantern Archon, and it wouldn't technically work against Lantern Archons.

There are many other things at the Wizard's disposal that he may not even need to use this kind of strategy, so debunking one strategy isn't going to help.

The truly powerful dragons and many demon lords are also 9 level spellcasters.

Anything a wizard can do, so can they, and they are a hell of a lot less fragile.


Be aware that you can't be flat-footed if you aren't in combat though. So, something like feather fall still works if you're just walking in a dungeon and fall down a hole.


I feel like Nex and Gen are a perfect demonstration why it doesn't work out. You will always be opposed by someone else and you will end up wasting a lot of time and resources to deal with it.


Pathfinder Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Wizards are neither better nor worse than most other classes at being rulers -- they should be at least equal in that regard to fighters, for example. The ablest rulers are those with high charisma, so there actually should be more sorcerers in that role.

Since wizards tend to have very high intelligence but mediocre charisma, they do make better advisers than heads of state.


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Albatoonoe wrote:
I feel like Nex and Gen are a perfect demonstration why it doesn't work out. You will always be opposed by someone else and you will end up wasting a lot of time and resources to deal with it.

Or you’re more like Razmir, who succeeded but spends all his time maintaining his power while trying to figure out the secret to immortality without admitting that’s something he needs to worry about.


The real world is not governed by the smartest persons either. Well, rulers are above average when it comes to intelligence, at least usually. But very smart people usually don't want the hassle that rulership means:

1) Being bothered with problems all the time, instead of pursuing your own goals.
2) Being public, so inevitably many people will utter their less than qualified opinions about you.
3) Drawing the hostility of people who want your position or disagree with your politics.

If I were an experienced wizard on Golarion, I would rather build a generic tower than becoming a mage king. You don't need the power of a kingdom, if you wield the power of the arcane arts.


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A wizard in an anti-magic field is a scrawny man with no con and no strength. A dragon in an anti-magic field is still a dragon. And if the field covers the wizard before he casts disjunction, he is screwed. Summons won't save him. Contingency spells won't go off. Just one scrawny, probably old man against an extremely large, very strong, pissed off dragon. And if you think that dragon didn't use its money and power to investigate the wizard so it could counter all of his tricks, you are lying to yourself. Remember, wizards aren't the only ones with all those nice tools.


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David knott 242 wrote:

Wizards are neither better nor worse than most other classes at being rulers -- they should be at least equal in that regard to fighters, for example.

Ok, I will bite. How are Fighters, a class that encourages mediocre charisma, intelligence, and wisdom, has 2 skills points per level, and lacks basic social skills as class skills suited in any way to be a ruler?


Pathfinder Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
chaoseffect wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Wizards are neither better nor worse than most other classes at being rulers -- they should be at least equal in that regard to fighters, for example.

Ok, I will bite. How are Fighters, a class that encourages mediocre charisma, intelligence, and wisdom, has 2 skills points per level, and lacks basic social skills as class skills suited in any way to be a ruler?

Somehow, a large percentage of rulers do seem to come from that class. How? From the stats I have seen, they generally find some way to overcome those disadvantages. In Pathfinder, that would probably involve judicious selection of traits, feats, and/or archetypes as well as not dumping charisma.

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