[Interest check] Did someone say Monsters?


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I am in the planning phase of a homebrew game that features no standard races. Or uncommon or rare or whatever races. In fact, if it has the option to be played as a standard, zero racial HD PC race, it's not allowed. All characters must be built from a certain CR range of monsters (right now looking at a 3-5 range) and a point or two from the race builder.
I understand that this is not fun for everyone, but I hope a few of you find the idea intriguing.
The Setting: Right now it's very much on the brainstorming/planning phase, but it'll likely feature a fight for survival vs impossible odds and lots of undead. Will feature both combat and monster politics/social stuff. This will probably end in your death. Just saying.

You can throw brainstorming ideas at the wall, but, fair warning, nothing you suggest may stick. We'll see how it goes on my end. Then again, it just might stick after all. You never know.


I'm passing out now, but I'll be around to answer questions and discuss in the morning.


Are Spheres of Power/Might available? If so, very interested.


This could be a very interesting change of pace, though I’m guessing keeping a party of monsters even moderately balanced will be tricky.

How many class levels (if any) would we start with?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

oh, oh, oh! I could play my Ogre Paladin!


Minotaur! Minotaur! Maybe magus... :D

Massive Minotaur Magus Monstrosity!


Flail snail bard, master of rhymes.


GM Choon wrote:
Will feature both combat and monster politics/social stuff.

Very good.

GM Choon wrote:
This will probably end in your death.

A game with akshual consequences? Count me in.

GM Choon wrote:
Just saying.

Sure. Intrigued. ;)

You seem to be open to us to help brainstorm the concept - I'm all for that, and also mindful that you'll run a game you like best. So, not having a burning preference any way yet I'll sit back and opine from time to time. Let's see what takes your fancy.

Oh. One thing. I'm guessing you aren't really looking for "against type"/undead characters?


Did someone say evil drow ranger?


@Spheres: I'm not overly familiar with them, so I'd prefer not to use them. As is mentioned by The Sesquipedalian Thaumaturge (who has the most copy/paste-able name I've ever seen), keeping this thing anywhere near balanced is going to be tricky, so I'd prefer to stick to what I know.

@Drow: The Drow have been statted as a playable PC race, so no drow.

@Undead: Good point. Undead will be disallowed, as will active necromancers in general. Those are your foe's tricks.

As for the foe, they were called the Cabal. They are unprecedented masters of necromancy and undeath to the point where even the Whispering Tyrant has bent his boney knees in submission. All undead are theirs to control, no matter who raised them or how they came about. All forces in the region of your little monster holdout have fallen to their armies or to internal strife or famine or some other catastrophe. Other regions still resist the tide, but they are in no position to help. Besides, you're monsters. Nobody's even thinking of you right now besides a few exotic zoo keepers.
The Cabal are cunning, ruthless, relentless, and they make Groteus smile.


Gotcha, how about a half succubus? You have to use a template, so its not a true pc race, since you can add it to anything.

Outside of that, are we playing evil or good? Just because we are a group of fey doesnt mean we arent viewed as monsters


You are playing Cooperatively. I have no problem with Evil, most monsters naturally are to some degree. However, the end of everything is nigh. Anyone who is unrepentantly selfish and out only for their own good is probably dead by now. This group has banded together for survival. That makes strange and quarrelsome bedfellows, sure, but you are bedfellows nonetheless.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Okay, so if someone wants to be evil, that means I can't (in good conscious) play a paladin. so Half-Celestial Ogre!


This sounds interesting. Can you elaborate any more on character creation? What are you looking for in a character?


Character creation is in flux, honestly. My thoughts right now are:
--Any monster of CR 5 or lower without the option to be made into a PC as a zero racial HD character.
--You may choose two 1RP options from the race builder to enhance your monster. This change must be accounted for in your fluff.
--If your choice is less than CR 5 you may choose ONE template to bring it up in CR. If your chosen template increases in CR modifier dependant on the HD of the base creature, such as Celestial or Resolute, treat it as its highest CR modifier. That would mean the two above would count as +1 templates even if your chosen bestie has 4HD.
--Leveling will not involve class levels. I'm thinking of giving out simple templates or RP points in lieu of classes, but that idea is one I literally just had, so, again, brainstorming here.

That's all I got right now.


Could I play a wyrmling dragon that levels by increasing age category?

Also, we could use the class templates from the Monster Codex and/or more racial HD for leveling.

Dark Archive

So, I would offer to play a Sahuagin, however Paizo recently added them as A Playable race even if they technically are Uber Powerful despite this.
A bite, two claws, and Blind sense not withholding.

They didn't however add any of the mutant Sahuagin variants.


I haven't seen the monster codex so I know nothing of class templates.

Dark Archive

If I play a Sahuagin I'd like to try the Sightless Varient. Found near the bottom of this page

And would likely play either a shaman or spell-caster of some kind.

However a fighter seems like a good idea as well :P


GM Choon wrote:
keeping this thing anywhere near balanced is going to be tricky

Mostly due to the fact that Pathfinder is not balanced to begin with. Actually, from my experience, SoP/SoM is more balanced than vanilla PF.

But well, you know...


Half Celestial (+3) Blink Dog (CR2) = CR5 Monster! This is awesome!

If we were going to be fighting anything other than undead I'd say Implacable Stalker would be a fantastic template, but undead being immune to fear...

@Vrog: we could team up - be an undead hunting duo who have teamed up with others to survive/for the greater good? :) An ogre and his dog sounds like fun :D


Here are the class templates.

So would the dragon leveling via age category idea work?


You mean that I could play a very young brass dragon! Count me in!


Playing as a Hive warrior could be insanely fun. It's literally a xenomorph from Alien...


Can we play awakened animals? An Awakened half-dragon (+2 CR) Deinonychus (CR3) sounds like a lot of fun. I don't think Awakening adds Cr, it doesn't say anything about it in the spell.

Alternatively, an Awakened Lycanthropic (+1 CR) Grizzly Bear (CR 4); it's a bear that can turn into a man!

The Exchange

Yeah I want to dive into this....

A lycanthropic giant spider? Aranea?

A nuglub?

What about a sentient swarm?

OOoh! Gelatiouns Cube?

CR 5

Uhm and actual Elder Thing?

Yah....I really want to do this, lol.


I would like you to be actual monsters. Awakening isn't the direction I was thinking for this.

Lantern Lodge

alexgndl wrote:
Playing as a Hive warrior could be insanely fun. It's literally a xenomorph from Alien...

I'll join you. GLORY FOR THE SWARM!


I'm also thinking of limiting the CR so someone can't pick a super weak monster and a superpowered template and somehow game it that way, but I'm not even sure that would be a problem.

Thoughts on limiting choices to a narrow range (like only 3-5 or even 4-5)?


So no Advanced Giant Celestial Lycanthropic Pseudodragons? :)


One template, remember. ;)


I'm probably worrying too much about this, but the time to worry is in planning, I guess, instead of in the middle of the first combat.

The Exchange

So...about Gelatinous Cube or an Elder Thing...how we feeling about those things Choon?


If you can explain how an elder thing got stuck on Golarion and didn't just say "I'm out, PEACE" and fly to another planet, then go for it.

If you want to play a cube you may want to spend your RP on getting some kid of ability to tell food you should eat from food you shouldn't, but I'm ok with someone trying to RP a living vacuum cleaner.

The Exchange

Well I mean the ET has to get INTO space first. Sadly at CR 5 its missing the ability to rocket thrust itself through the atmosphere. Hell if that isn't motivation for a monster during this sort of scenario what is?

Yeah I forget the cube has no Int...hmmm...

I'm still shopping around but I want to do something weird. Not a lot of opportunities like this show up. ;p


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I'm all for playing or playing with a GC. There's nothing like having a cube of destruction in the party, or interpreting body wobbles.

Character 1 "What was that Impervia? You're hungry again?"

Character 2 "I think she's saying turn left at the next junction. I think. Either that or you're running low on arrows."

Character 3 "No, I think it's 'My name is "Inscrutaba" '. ... Wait, what do you mean "she?"


Don't forget about Rite Publishing's seminal works of Cubery

The Exchange

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Don't forget about Rite Publishing's seminal works of Cubery

I....

I...

if Choon will let me do it, I will buy these and play a GC.

Just...

Yeah! :p


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Nikolaus de'Shade wrote:
@Vrog: we could team up - be an undead hunting duo who have teamed up with others to survive/for the greater good? :) An ogre and his dog sounds like fun :D

That sounds awesome.

Choon, you might consider looking at something like the 3.5 dnd product savage species. I know that someone on the forums was doing the same thing for Pathfinder monsters, but I couldn't find a link for it in a quick search.

Or, as Oceanshielfwolf pointed out, Rite publishing has a BUNCH of "play as a critter" class books. They currently have angel, fey, dragon, gargoyle, gelatinous cube, Lycanthrope, golem, and a few others I'm sure I'm missing.

As far as other forms of advancement go, we could probably do HD advancement instead of levelling. if memory serves, you want to increase HD at about 1.5 times the normal rate of class advancement, to keep a creature on par with a levelled class in terms of power.


PirateDevon wrote:
Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Don't forget about Rite Publishing's seminal works of Cubery

I....

I...

if Choon will let me do it, I will buy these and play a GC.

Just...

Yeah! :p

Wow... someone wrote a book on them. I'm honestly surprised.


Sentient gelatinous cubes are not unheard of...

SPOILER 5e Out of the Abyss:

Jubilex, the Faerun demon lord of oozes grants a cube int 10 and it can be an NPC that follows the party around.


As for advancement, HD is definitely an option. It doesn't open up new options like a class would though, so I worry about the play getting stale. Unless you're advancing by age category like a dragon would. Which I would allow, I think. Maybe. Depends on the leveling method I land on.


mishima wrote:

Sentient gelatinous cubes are not unheard of...

** spoiler omitted **

that there is my favorite:
demon lord from 3.5 bar none.
The Exchange

Honestly I'm going to buy those books anyway. If this thing takes off I'll try to summit a GC and if not then I'll find something else, lol


Well, there hasn't been a tide of interest, which doesn't surprise me. I haven't counted yet, but I don't think we have too many. We'll see what happens wants actual recruitment starts up. And no, I don't know when that is yet. :)


Dreamscarred Press put out these Monster Classes Vrog was talking about - the project started as a conversion of 3.5's Savage Species, then DSP picked it up. The reviews have been mixed, as the power levels seem to be hard to contain, both up and down.

If PirateDevon is going Gelatinous Cube I'll shop around for something else. I'm not looking to have the most CR, so I'll go with a Vegepygmy. Now they don't speak, but I'm sure someone could learn to interpret their chest thumps or inflorescence or pollen spore sprays...


Talented Bestiary would be good for this, but sadly it's not on the pfsrd.

Could be super interesting regardless. Will need to give some thought, and see what final recruitment looks like.


Hey, I'm interested. I was just following quietly (since I don't really know what I would like to play).


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If you're going vegepygmy, you should be a half-dragon vegepygmy, cause Dragon's will sleep with anything.

The Exchange

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Dreamscarred Press put out these Monster Classes Vrog was talking about - the project started as a conversion of 3.5's Savage Species, then DSP picked it up. The reviews have been mixed, as the power levels seem to be hard to contain, both up and down.

If PirateDevon is going Gelatinous Cube I'll shop around for something else. I'm not looking to have the most CR, so I'll go with a Vegepygmy. Now they don't speak, but I'm sure someone could learn to interpret their chest thumps or inflorescence or pollen spore sprays...

Woah woah woah, if you want to shoot for the cube I will totally work on something else. I just want a cube in the group, I don't have to be it, lol.

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