Mystic Healer feeling useless (Help needed)


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Jurassic Pratt wrote:

Starfinder CRB wrote:
Rather than meticulously track every arms dealer, contact, guild, and license a character has access to, the game assumes that in typical settlements you can find and purchase anything with an item level no greater than your character level + 1, and at major settlements items up to your character level + 2. The GM can restrict access to some items (even those of an appropriate level) or make items of a higher level available for purchase (possibly at a greatly increased price or in return for a favor done for the seller).

page number please so i can point this out.


ghostunderasheet wrote:
Jurassic Pratt wrote:

Starfinder CRB wrote:
Rather than meticulously track every arms dealer, contact, guild, and license a character has access to, the game assumes that in typical settlements you can find and purchase anything with an item level no greater than your character level + 1, and at major settlements items up to your character level + 2. The GM can restrict access to some items (even those of an appropriate level) or make items of a higher level available for purchase (possibly at a greatly increased price or in return for a favor done for the seller).
page number please so i can point this out.

167.


ghostunderasheet wrote:
what ability is this absorb 6 dmg you speak of?

Almost certainly Lifelink:

p86 wrote:

At the start of each turn, you can choose an ally within

30 feet who has taken Hit Point damage and transfer her
wounds to yourself, dealing an amount of damage up to your
mystic level to your Hit Points (bypassing any Stamina Points
you may have) and healing the ally’s Hit Points an equal
amount. This doesn’t require any action on your part. You
can’t prevent or reduce the damage you take from lifelink.


Starfinder Superscriber

Also Mystic Cure does this...

SRD Link-Mystic Cure

The SRD wrote:
On the other hand, if this isn’t enough to restore all the target’s Hit Points, you can transfer any number of your own Hit Points to the target, healing the target that amount. You can’t transfer more Hit Points than you have or more Hit Points than the target is missing.


Well, your mystic could get an injector pistol and spend certain rounds shooting their teammates with Transdimensional Pesh. (Everyone should take the Great Fortitude feat for addiction)


what ability is this absorb 6 dmg you speak of?

It is one of the Healing Mystic's Powers

From the Core Rules
Life Link
At the start of each turn, you can choose an ally within
30 feet who has taken Hit Point damage and transfer her
wounds to yourself, dealing an amount of damage up to your
mystic level to your Hit Points (bypassing any Stamina Points
you may have) and healing the ally’s Hit Points an equal
amount. This doesn’t require any action on your part. You
can’t prevent or reduce the damage you take from lifelink


I saw but i don't read too much beyond the current level it may be one of the reasons why I chose the architect. But beyond the first read through i try not getting ahead of myself.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Consider homebrewing medicinals and let him craft them.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Where does he get the idea that "Healer" is an all-consuming role? Healer is a specialty of Mystic, yes, but it doesn't make all the other abilities Mystics have vanish.


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Starfinder Superscriber

I'm pretty sure it's from playing video games where (in a group) Clerics are expected to sit there and spam their highest level heal spell in combat and never do anything else.

I think this is a terrible and boring way to play even a video game, but that's the only explanation that makes any sense to me.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

One of my players is doing a dedicated Mystic healer but went all in. Meaning she too ranks in medicine and is using a injection pistol to deliver long range medicinals and acid / poison. Not to mention she does have offensive spells. I believe the combination will be more than enough to keep her busy contributing and ad a ton of survivability to the party


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Necrodemus wrote:
My player took the priest mystic with healing connection because he wants to be a healer. He doesn't want to be a buff/debuff off-tank combat medic. He wants to be a healer.

Messing with the basic structure of SP and HP sounds pretty drastic (and Starfinder combat is still crunchy enough that I would be leery of adding yet more steps to it). Why not just:

- Homebrew a Mystic spell that heals SP or provides other players with temporary HP so that he doesn't have to wait until other players are taking HP damage to be useful?
- Homebrew a Healer version of Life Bubble that provides damage resistance instead of environmental protection?
- Have your player craft a Spellthrower fusion and get him some spell gems and ampoules that can leverage abilities like the above beyond his core spell slots?
- Homebrew a Stimulant Medicinal that can buff SP or provide temp HP non-magically? These can even be administered to allies from a distance with an Injector pistol.

I would do any and all of these before just throwing out the game's basic combat mechanics.


pithica42 wrote:
Necrodemus wrote:

My player took the priest mystic with healing connection because he wants to be a healer. He doesn't want to be a buff/debuff off-tank combat medic. He wants to be a healer.

And since I don't want to tell anyone that their character concept is useless, I'd much rather fix it, so it works.

Despite my earlier contention about this concept (I still wish it would die in a fire), if that's truly what he wants, I think there should always be options. I personally know people that loved staring at their spell book and casting complete heal every 30 seconds in EQ. I think they're crazy, but luckily the world takes all kinds of people and my opinions don't actually matter.

I think the way you're doing it is going to bog down combat, but I've never played Fate Core, so maybe I'm wrong. Therefore, to fix it, I think the following would be better (or at least, easier to manage for him and you).

1. Do away with stamina as a concept entirely. Everyone gets what is listed for their class (hp+sta+con) as hitpoints.

2. Resolve points can be used between combats in a 10 minute rest to heal hitpoints at the same rate they normally heal stamina (so they won't always take them back up to full health, they'll just heal X amount per RP/10 minute rest).

3. Inspiring boost heals hitpoints at the same rate it normally heals stamina. (In case someone decides to play an Envoy)

4. All mystic spells and abilities are the same.

5. Any healing from any source that goes over current hitpoints acts as temp hitpoints for up to, say, 1 minute (essentially whatever is enough to last through a single combat). This is to keep him from wasting juice healing too early.

I still don't think he's going to get what he wants, really. I honestly don't think he'll ever have the juice to spend all his actions healing. He's probably still going to have to do something else at least some of the time or sit on his hands for half of every combat. But I think that's as close as you can get without bringing...

I think you'll find this is a solid compromise, OP. I think making people choose between HP/Stam is just going to slow down the game and bake in some unnecessary considerations.


ghostunderasheet wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:

I have a Mystic healer in my group and he is a badass.

Few things about my game though:
1) I crush my group with the difficult fights.
2) Healing spells provoke AOO
3) I give specialization for spells (Full lvl for single target, 1/2 dam for AOE).
4) I allow a caster to use his/her spells slots from high caster stat. An 18 wisdom mystic can use his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th spell slots to cast 1st level spells.
5) Our group is 6th level at the moment. The healer has Mobility, Spell focus, Long Arms, and just got a haste circuit.

My group would never survive without a dedicated healer. That said the healer doesn't just heal.

Round 1. When combat starts he positions himself near the tanks and unloads with his disintegration rifle (d20 dam) until round two.

Round 2. he absorbs 6 of damage off of an ally. As his GM keep in mind how awesome this is your healer is taking what amounts to a full combat blow to keep his group running. It is easy to metagame blow this off as nothing but I play it up to show his toughness. If HP damage is still light he fires again but moves towards which ever persons stamina is close to going/gone.

Round 3. Absorb 6 damage off an ally. Single target heal the person that needs it most.

Round 4. Absorb 6 damage. Move towards the most damaged ally. Smash a badly damaged foe with Mind Thrust.

Round 5 Absorb 6 damage. If things are going south blow a RP and heal everyone 4d8. Otherwise heal himself or a worse off ally.

My group has been on Eox for 3 (Real life) weeks. They were supposed to go into the Eox wastes. However the healer wasn't available last week and they were too scared to attempt the waste without him.

Anyway mostly my suggestion would be as a GM you are letting your players off too easy if they dont need healing. :)

what ability is this absorb 6 dmg you speak of?

I think lifelink "At the start of each turn, you can choose an ally within 30 feet who has taken Hit Point damage and transfer her

wounds to yourself..."

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Star Dragon Caith wrote:
pithica42 wrote:
Necrodemus wrote:

My player took the priest mystic with healing connection because he wants to be a healer. He doesn't want to be a buff/debuff off-tank combat medic. He wants to be a healer.

And since I don't want to tell anyone that their character concept is useless, I'd much rather fix it, so it works.

Despite my earlier contention about this concept (I still wish it would die in a fire), if that's truly what he wants, I think there should always be options. I personally know people that loved staring at their spell book and casting complete heal every 30 seconds in EQ. I think they're crazy, but luckily the world takes all kinds of people and my opinions don't actually matter.

I think the way you're doing it is going to bog down combat, but I've never played Fate Core, so maybe I'm wrong. Therefore, to fix it, I think the following would be better (or at least, easier to manage for him and you).

1. Do away with stamina as a concept entirely. Everyone gets what is listed for their class (hp+sta+con) as hitpoints.

2. Resolve points can be used between combats in a 10 minute rest to heal hitpoints at the same rate they normally heal stamina (so they won't always take them back up to full health, they'll just heal X amount per RP/10 minute rest).

3. Inspiring boost heals hitpoints at the same rate it normally heals stamina. (In case someone decides to play an Envoy)

4. All mystic spells and abilities are the same.

5. Any healing from any source that goes over current hitpoints acts as temp hitpoints for up to, say, 1 minute (essentially whatever is enough to last through a single combat). This is to keep him from wasting juice healing too early.

I still don't think he's going to get what he wants, really. I honestly don't think he'll ever have the juice to spend all his actions healing. He's probably still going to have to do something else at least some of the time or sit on his hands for half of every combat. But I think that's as close as

...

heck just take a level of envoy so you can so some stamina heals then the rest as a mystic


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Necrodemus wrote:
he still feels (as do I) that if the game doesn't support a primary healer, then why do they a) include it as a main feature for a class, and b) don't explain that feature better, as to how that role fits within the overall mechanics of the game.

This feels like kind of an unfair point to make. A arguably makes more sense reversed: Your healing is only one class feature of several, so why would you expect it to be intended for a character to hyperfocus on it to the exclusion of everything else?

Would you be just as defensive about a Mystic who only wanted to shoot guns? Or an Operative who only wanted to make skill checks and never fight?

I'm not saying that you shouldn't find ways to accomodate players or that the concept is fundamentally bad, but it's a bit silly to continuously insist it's some massive failing of the system that it doesn't bend over backwards to accommodate super niche and weird playstyle choices and I'm not really sure how constantly taking jabs at the game actually helps you here.


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My only input here is less build-related and more a comment on how to GM a Starfinder game. The trick to providing a solid challenge to players is all about taking into account their resources and balancing the challenge against that. If your players are walking through all your encounters with ease and never taking any HP damage... You need to ask yourself whether you've got the CR balance down.

Some encounters should be fairly easy and quick (maybe they're fights that you need to move the narrative along, or they're designed less to injure and more to just get them to blow a spells or something), and others will be longer and much harder. But, if every battle starts with a fully equipped and fresh party, you're kinda doing it wrong. Disclosure: I am not a fan of the 1-minute adventuring day, so you don't typically see that sort of thing in any games I run.

First off, there's no reason a GM has to allow a 10-minute uninterrupted rest between every fight, but even if you do - every fight should drain resources. By the time the party makes it way to the climax of the adventure, if they haven't carefully hoarded their daily/one-shot abilities, then they're going to start at a disadvantage.

If they don't have a healer, likely that disadvantage will include hit point damage. Cinematically, this is like the heros all bruised and bleeding, but still all rough and ready for the next fight... come at me bro! sort of thing. But... they're still not 100% - done right, they'll be more like 75% give or take.

So far, no one has wanted to play a Mystic because, let's face it, they're not the most satisfying of classes in SF, but at the end of every session, *someone* usually laments there isn't one in the group and says something to the effect of "man, sure wish we had a mystic about now..." Why? Because without one, a party doing a series of encounters that are properly balanced leading up to a fairly (very) difficult boss fight, should be pretty well and good beat to hell. Not dead... no one really enjoys that... but perhaps (very) close.

Last point: Allowing SP healing. Don't do it. It's copout and really does ruin the SP/HP balance of the game. The game is designed the way it is for a reason, and if you houserule that HP healing also heals SP, the only alternative for a GM to keep the game balanced is to radically up the CR. This is blasphemy here, I know, but the reason I never got into Pathfinder is exactly because all you needed to do was hit MagiMart and stock up on heals, and head back out for your game of rocket tag. Boring.... (imo). Starfinder has gone a long way to fix that, and homebrewing rules that counteract that will break the balance. This is especially true if you do pre-made campaigns that are designed to be balanced under RAW.

Obviously, your group, your game - do what's fun for your players (since that should really be the goal of any GM). For me, my players enjoy a hard-won challenge. Easy sessions get, "yeah, it's was pretty good, thanks!" but well balanced and challenging sessions get "wow, that was awesome, best session ever" and leave me wondering if I can top that the next time around :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I for one enjoy playing the mystic a heck of a lot more than, say, technomancers. So much so, that nearly all of my Pathfinder wizards and sorcerers that I've ported over to Starfinder have ended up being mystics rather than technomancers.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've seen the mystic help a bunch vs poisons and disease. Perhaps as a GM lean into conditions that remove spells help with.


It seems like your healer just dosnt want to be a healer but a pasifist healer almost. While that can be cool and fun he's still limiting the other way s he can assist his party other then being a one trick pony. That being said there are still some house rules you could do to assist him. Healing spell healing half the amount toal after hp to heal stamina. Example player hp Max is 12 and players Stam is at 0 and has suffered 2 hp dmg so current Hp is at 10. Healing cast spell and get a 10 total. 2 poits go to Hp the 8 remaining divided by half so stamina is healed 4 point. If player took no hp dmg, stamina would be healed by 5. Another option would be be to create spells to heal stamina. I've played alot of healers but there's more to being a healer then just healing in a game like this preventing your party from injury is just as importan. Otherwise he's making it harder not just on himself but the party to. Ask him what his character is willing to do to protect his companions.Make it into a story point and help a character show him other options he could have that don't conflict with what he wants to do. Play can get stuck in a concept sometimes and not see other options till they are show.


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Necrodemus wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback.

I've been talking with my mystic player, and while he understands the points you've given about how a healer is supposed to work within the rules, he still feels (as do I) that if the game doesn't support a primary healer, then why do they a) include it as a main feature for a class, and b) don't explain that feature better, as to how that role fits within the overall mechanics of the game.

The game rules DO support a primary healer. They don't, however, support a one-trick pony. A STR Soldier who only tries to use melee attacks against every enemy is going to die. A drone Mechanic who only makes skill checks and makes his drone do all the fighting, will die. A healing connection Mystic who won't breath if it doesn't restore somebody's health, will watch their allies die around them before dying themselves.

Pathfinder encouraged overspecialization to a fault (and having your party members make up for your weaknesses, which is everything besides what you're best at). Starfinder plays a lot differently. Connections aren't even the Mystic's main class feature; it's their spells. And even a caster-only Mystic is going to be at a disadvantage. It's capable of working, at least more than a heal-only one. But when Starfinder gives a PC something, it needs to be used. Even small arm proficiency, which is laughed at, is still good for covering/surpressing fire (which can prevent damage better than a low level Mystic can heal it).

When somebody at the table says "I want to do X and nothing else, and expect the game to balance itself around me," they're labeled a problem player. I don't think your player is that yet, but I'm wary of them getting spoiled.


Just an idea, have them dip in envoy. They have an ability that restores stamina points I belive.

Exo-Guardians

They do, but they'll only restore 2+CHA with a one level dip and it only works with significant threats around.


A +3 to stamina regain is still a better option then refusing to help your party survive because their health has not reached critical levels to be worth while healing. Because you want to play that not very party helpful conscientious objector pacifist. Why would one go adventuring anyways it would go against thier morals. And would be a fatal flaw in your party or a ball and chain strapped to your neck in the river of battle.


Your party has an opening in thier group for a doctor. they have two options one is your current healer. The other is someone who will do everything yor friend will do plus thestuff he isnot willing to do. Who do you hire?

Your friend is playing an npc from how i read everything that i have. If he must play his currant Pc then instead of playing the pasifist objector he should play the regretful instigator who punishes himself for the lives he has to take but tries to use his medical knowledge to gauge a person's health so he is never the one to kill a target. Maybe you can find him crying in his room as he whips his own back to bloody ribbons as penance for the all the wrong doings he has done between missions.


Being a pacifist in a group of non-pacifists does not mean never doing anything during fights (or just healing and enabling your more violently inclined friends").
Quite the opposite even : you should be actively looking for ways to limit the bloodshed. Which a Mystic is actually good at.
Even once the fight has started, he has control, Save-or-sucks, all that jazz. What easier way to convince your party to spare a foe than making sure it is not as big a threat ? Neutralize without killing, while inflicting as little damage as possible and influencing everyone around you, that's the minigame you should really be playing.
If nothing else, unless said healer is a Kuthite, preventing damage is a pretty good idea as well - and again, good class for that.

Being a healbot under the guise of pacifism is quickly boring, not really efficient, and utterly hypocritical. Keeping your hands clean while everyone around you gets beat up to death and doing nothing about it when you could ? Not a great thing to do. Add a satisfied half-grin for maximum badguyness.
It could absolutely work as part of an organized army mind you, where that degree of specialization makes sense, but not in a smaller group like an adventuring party.

But the bottom line is, every time your party kills someone should feel like some degree of a personal failure - not always a big shattering one of course, but the least bad option is still not the ideal one.

Not convinced OP is still waiting for an answer, as it's been a few months, and it's one of those most subjective of subjects, so do what you will.
Pacifism ain't easy and pure dedicated healers don't really work that well in most games.


My Soldier actually is a pacifist, in terms of his preference for not killing. He will still kill when necessary, but he will absolutely switch to non-lethal damage to take down enemies if he thinks that they're just, you know, idiots. Or animals. Zoggy loves animals and would rather beat them unconscious than kill them.

There was one boss fight in a SFS scenario where he one-rounded one of the major enemies with a full attack for a boatload of nonlethal damage that took him straight to unconscious, and the enemy's partner surrendered then and there, realizing that, while we weren't going to kill him, he was suddenly, utterly, alone.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Hey, OP, let me answer your question with another question.

Think back to previous games where your healer-focused player has had more success with their role and the class fantasy. Now imagine any of the fights where the healer's turn comes up, but no one in the party has taken significant damage.

What does the player tend to do in these situations?

The more we know about what they want the more we can advise them without simply saying that Starfinder isn't the kind of system for that play style. (Not that I disagree with that statement)


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ghostunderasheet wrote:

Your party has an opening in thier group for a doctor. they have two options one is your current healer. The other is someone who will do everything yor friend will do plus thestuff he isnot willing to do. Who do you hire?

Your friend is playing an npc from how i read everything that i have. If he must play his currant Pc then instead of playing the pasifist objector he should play the regretful instigator who punishes himself for the lives he has to take but tries to use his medical knowledge to gauge a person's health so he is never the one to kill a target. Maybe you can find him crying in his room as he whips his own back to bloody ribbons as penance for the all the wrong doings he has done between missions.

I think the problem is, this assumes that the issue is the character being a pacifist. To me, it sounds like its not a matter of the character's belief that fighting is bad, but the player's belief that they should be able to do nothing every turn but heal.


ghostunderasheet wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:

I have a {snip}

Round 2. he absorbs 6 of damage off of an ally. As his GM keep in mind how awesome this is your healer is taking what amounts to a full combat blow to keep his group running. It is easy to metagame blow this off as nothing but I play it up to show his toughness. If HP damage is still light he fires again but moves towards which ever persons stamina is close to going/gone.
{snip}

what ability is this absorb 6 dmg you speak of?

It's from the Healing connection:

Lifelink (Su), 3rd Level

At the start of each turn, you can choose an ally within 30 feet who has taken Hit Point damage and transfer her wounds to yourself, dealing an amount of damage up to your mystic level to your Hit Points (bypassing any Stamina Points you may have) and healing the ally's Hit Points an equal amount. This doesn’t require any action on your part. You can’t prevent or reduce the damage you take from lifelink.


OR he might be referring to the Shield Other spell:

Shield Other

School abjuration
Casting Time 1 standard action
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one creature
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

This spell wards the target and creates a mystic connection between you and the target so that some of its wounds are transferred to you. Casting this spell requires you to spend 1 Resolve Point. The target takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal Hit Point damage, and you take the amount of damage not taken by the target. Only Hit Point damage is transferred in this manner; the target’s Stamina Points are damaged as normal. If you still have Stamina Points, you take the damage to your Stamina Points before Hit Points, as with normal damage.

Forms of harm that do not involve Hit Points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, ability drain, permanent negative levels, and death effects, are not affected. When the spell ends, subsequent damage is no longer divided between the target and you, but damage already split is not reassigned to the target. If you and the target of the spell move out of range of each other, the spell ends.

Shadow Lodge

That won't work for the same reason they're feeling useless.

The game seems built around losing your staminia and keeping your HP until the final boss. Shield other won't help until they start digging into their HP


Only time I feel useless in starfinder is in ship to ship combat. Where my character is forced to man a gun. It would not be so bad if all of piloting skill was applied to hit. But since it is not and I am no a pilot so I have not invested in that skill. My shots are quite weak. Making half our weapons useless. And there is not place for a healer in the ship that would be helpful for ship to ship combat. That I would think my character would be able to take and be beneficial for the party.

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