An i use limited wish to take extra feat ?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


Or wish only ?

Or no at all.


Nope, not at all. It’s beyond the stated limitations of even Wish, and it’s lesser brother has no hope of it at all.

Beyond that, getting a new feat for nothing more than 1,500 gp is more than a bit OP.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No chance at all

Silver Crusade

Well, technically nothing is beyond the purview of wish, however it's at the GM's discretion. For practical purposes though, like the others said, no.


It can get messy if you allow limited wish to do that, but I'm not against the idea of granting feats for a limited time.

It depends on your GM, but I would expect a "no."


My group allowed it with the caveat that you still had to meet all prerequisites.

Mine is a home group and not PFS.


A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, a limited wish can do any of the following things.

- Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools
- Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
- Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
- Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 4th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools...

While it doesn't say anything about racial restrictions, you should be able to cast a racial restricted 3rd level spell ...

School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 3, bloodrager 3, cleric 3, magus 4, paladin 4, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range personal (half-elf only)
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level
DESCRIPTIONYou surge with ancestral power, temporarily embodying all the strengths of both elvenkind and humankind simultaneously, and transforming into a paragon of both races, something greater than elf or human alone. Unlike with most polymorph effects, your basic form does not change, so you keep all extraordinary and supernatural abilities of your half-elven form as well as all of your gear. For the duration of the spell, you receive a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity and Intelligence and are treated as if you possessed any one feat for which you meet the prerequisites, chosen when you cast this spell.
The first time each day that you cast this spell, you must select a feat and make all the associated choices that come with it. Once that choice is made, it is set for the day and additional castings must make the exact same decisions.

So you should be able to get a feat (which you already have the prerequisites for) for 1 minute per caster level. I'd even let you do it if Transmutation is your opposition school since you can cast 4th level non-sorcerer/wizard spells from that school, although ultimately it's up to your GM to determine how many levels the racial restriction is worth.


No, I wouldn't let Wish (let alone Limited Wish) grant a permanent feat.

There are some items that can grant feats, including the weapon "Training" special enhancement.

As a GM my answer would be "find another way".

But then again, I don't really allow creative uses of wish, unless they're clearly in line with the already written accepted uses. Not without something to balance it out (usually something bad happening to the character in response for the benefit).

Now I might allow something like a spontaneous retraining of a feat. It's pretty powerful, but also no real benefit over what you could have normally.


I'd allow a feat for a limited time or retraining of an existing feat.

A no strings attached free extra feat though... unlikely unless it was a feat I thought fairly meaningless [mostly flavor] at the level wish comes online. For instance, Cosmopolitan is not doing much for a 18+ caster and is FAR different from a Quicken Spell feat.


Allowing it with limited wish would be way too easy to abuse. With wish it is more reasonable, but still possible to abuse.

If a GM wanted to include this I would say make a special quest they have to complete for the one wizard who has researched and experimented for years in order to find a way of using wish in that way with each party member getting a feat (or some equivalent benefit).

This makes it a controllable one-off, not a mechanic that can be abused.


Wish usually costs 25k to cast - money you could use to buy items which (more or less) give you a feat:

4k gloves of arrow snaring: Snatch Arrows 2/day
6k vambraces of defense: Deflect Arrows 1/day
+2 weapon enhancement arrow deflection: Deflect Arrows
7.5k manual of war: Exchange a fighter bonus feat for 24 hours (can be worth up to a full combat feat, if the one traded away is pretty much useless right now)
10k rombhoid ioun stone: Alertness
12k blind man's fold: Improved Blind-Fight (you can't see with it, though)
24.5k (usual price) greater metamagic rod (+1 spell level): Metamagic feat 'only' 3/day and you must equip the item, but no spell level increase
73k (usual price) greater metamagic rod (+2 spell levels): See above
...

So a few low-level feats do have a price, very (!) roughly 10k. Medium-level ones are more expensive, and high-level ones are not available at all. Meaning it wouldn't be totally unreasonable to gain a low-level feat via wish, as long as you really pay those 25k.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber

If I were the GM, I'd probably allow limited wish to grant you a feat you don't have... with a duration of one minute per caster level if you meet prerequisites, or one round per caster level if you don't.

(Hey— You get your wish, but it's limited!)

I'd probably allow the same for wish, but with a longer duration. (Maybe 1 day/caster level if you meet prerequisites, or 1 hour per level if you don't.)

Liberty's Edge

hellatze wrote:

Or wish only ?

Or no at all.

Do you mind saying if English is not your native language? No disrespect intended, but your posts tend to be rather difficult to understand ...


Yeah considering that feats generally are given a 'cost' via items I'd let it happen.

For limited wish I'd just replicate paragon surge and perhaps give it double duration or even 24 hours given the cost.

For wish I'd most likely let the duration be permanant or slide down to hours/level based on the number of pre-reqs you ignored....

I mean - even at the level wish is cast - 25k is still quite a bit of cash.


Ckorik wrote:

Yeah considering that feats generally are given a 'cost' via items I'd let it happen.

For limited wish I'd just replicate paragon surge and perhaps give it double duration or even 24 hours given the cost.

For wish I'd most likely let the duration be permanant or slide down to hours/level based on the number of pre-reqs you ignored....

I mean - even at the level wish is cast - 25k is still quite a bit of cash.

The wish effect that is closest to getting a permanent feat is a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. That seems weaker than a feat to me.


Marc Radle wrote:
hellatze wrote:

Or wish only ?

Or no at all.

Do you mind saying if English is not your native language? No disrespect intended, but your posts tend to be rather difficult to understand ...

He has said before that English is not his native language. In one of his first posts on the forum.


I'd restrict this to wish unless the player could point to something like Paragon Surge, and even then it would only be like casting Paragon Surge, not permanent access to the feat. For wish, given that permanent access to a feat surpasses the spell's auto-success requirements, I'd inform the player that I could invoke the "DM can twist the meaning of the request" clause to impose a drawback.


I probably wouldn't allow it for the wish spell that can be cast daily for an unlimited supply of new feats...but for a 1-shot granted wish like from a Deck of Many Things, or encountered Genie I'd allow it.


gaining a combat feat for free so long as you use the weapon the enchantment is on is a +1 cost so 6000(3000 if your crafting it yourself) gold so a permanent no string attached feat(except meeting all other prerequisites) would be about 10000(or 5000 if you do it yourself) so i would say a wish could do it or 7 casts of limited wish by something not yourself or 4 casts of your own spell, they are spending a crap ton of gold on this so should be fine just means they have less gear


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Childeric, The Shatterer wrote:
I probably wouldn't allow it for the wish spell that can be cast daily for an unlimited supply of new feats...but for a 1-shot granted wish like from a Deck of Many Things, or encountered Genie I'd allow it.

Well, limited by 25,000 GP per casting. You'd run out of loot pretty quickly. But dammit if you don't have all of the archery feats, even if you can no longer afford a bow. ;)

Scarab Sages

I can't think of many feats, or feat chains, that are overpowered enough to say "No" to this. What I would likely do, personally, is tie the feat to a specific piece of worn gear. So, let's say you wanted Improved Initiative. I might tie it to a weapon, or maybe your current head slot item, and increase the value of the item commensurately to compensate for its increased power.

If I were being more fair, I would say yes, but would factor in the difference between the cost of the Wish and a permanent, slotless magic item that grants one feat and factor that into the party WBL. It'd be time consuming, but that's probably how I'd handle it.


Cost-wise, Expanded Arcana would be much cheaper than Pages of Spell Knowledge for spell levels 6+ (8+ if crafting). With wish, 2 level 8 spells would cost 25k instead of 128k (64k if crafting).


hehehehe oh......

I'd allow it if I dmed and I dont.
but if I did.

I would not allow combat or metamagic feats.

all you get is general feats.

so IF I did and you used it for that purpose, hope you were not going for weapon focus.

though here is something.

you could try using it to get more traits, but within the trait rules, only one per section.

edit: PS. you know you could use it persay to get your next level up feat early.


Marc Radle wrote:
hellatze wrote:

Or wish only ?

Or no at all.

Do you mind saying if English is not your native language? No disrespect intended, but your posts tend to be rather difficult to understand ...

If people understand my post. Then ypur statement are pointless.

And english are not my natives, just because english are universal languages. Doesn't mean you force me to speak better.

I do try to make my word comperhensive.

Liberty's Edge

hellatze wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
hellatze wrote:

Or wish only ?

Or no at all.

Do you mind saying if English is not your native language? No disrespect intended, but your posts tend to be rather difficult to understand ...

If people understand my post. Then ypur statement are pointless.

And english are not my natives, just because english are universal languages. Doesn't mean you force me to speak better.

I do try to make my word comperhensive.

Understood! Like I said, my intent was not to be disrespectful - I was simply curious.

Certainly not implying everyone has to speak English by *any* means, believe me!!


Steelfiredragon wrote:

I would not allow combat or metamagic feats.

all you get is general feats.

I wouldn't underestimate players' desire to get around restrictions. Extra Contingency, Greater Eldritch Heritage and Angel Wings / Wings of Air / Oread Burrower can have a serious impact on combat. Not to mention all these Extra X feats, which can be used to pick up high level class abilities.


Back in 3.X, you could generally get a magic item version of a feat for 10,000 gp. PF seems to be similar.

Wish allows you to duplicate a spell with up to 10,000 gp components without spending more than the 25,000 gp component cost of the wish. [Limited wish allows 1,000 gp with a 1,500 gp component cost.]

I would say a wish can, in general, grant a feat.
I would say limited wish could also do so, but for a limited time, say one hour per level.

Being able to use the feat requires you have the prerequisites.

The main caveat, is that some feats are better than others. GM variation, such as limited wish grant a feat with no time limit if the feat is wimpy, or wish granting a potent feat only with an additional gp component, should be fine.

Remember, since a magic item of the feat can often be made for less than 25,000 gp, this method is only saving time.

/cevah

Shadow Lodge

I think I would also allow Wish to grant a feat if you meet the prerequisites.

If being cautious I might say only a feat with no pre-requisites. Even the better feats without pre-requisites, like Improved Initiative, seem to me to be no more valuable than a +1 inherent bonus to your favourite ability score.

Limited Wish to temporarily gain a feat as if with Paragon Surge is fine, but it's too cheap and easy to grant a permanent feat.


Weirdo wrote:
Even the better feats without pre-requisites, like Improved Initiative, seem to me to be no more valuable than a +1 inherent bonus to your favourite ability score.

Counterexample: Additional Traits


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I wonder though... how would you word a wish for a feat...

Shadow Lodge

I know many people like Additional Traits, but I'm not sure why. Assuming you're in a game where you're allowed to take two traits at character creation, you've probably already picked the best two traits for the character - and any following traits are further limited as you can't have traits in multiple categories. Personally, with two traits I usually grab at most one "powerful" trait and then use the other for character flavour (often adding a class skill).


I don't see how it's more powerful than being able to improve your stats. I mean, You can burn two wishes to get +2 to Dex. Let's say you're a Dex-to-damage martial. Two wishes just got you:

+1 to attack (equivalent to Weapon Focus, but for all weapons)
+1 to Damage (equivalent to half of Weapon Specialization, but for all weapons)
+1 to AC (equivalent to Improved Natural Armor or Dodge)
+1 to Initiative (equivalent to 1/4 of Improved Initiative)
+1 to Reflex Saves (equivalent to half of Lightning Reflexes)
+1 to 7 skills (worth about a feat, I think. Skill Focus gives you 3-6 skill points, other skill feats give about 4-8)
Probably something else I'm forgetting.

So that's what, equivalent to around 4-5 feats for 2 spells? Other stats might give even more power.

I don't see how granting a feat for a wish is overpowered. Limited wish is, of course, more limited, but still.

Silver Crusade

arkham wrote:
I wonder though... how would you word a wish for a feat...

Same way you'd wish for anything that's an abstract concept representing something in game. You'd tell the DM what feat you wanted and your character would wish to be able to do what the feat does. If you wanted exotic weapon proficiency in the whip, you'd wish to be able to use a whip. If you wanted combat reflexes you'd wish to be able to react quickly in battle, etc.


as long as they cast multiple limited wishes in a row like how one must do for normal wishing going into stat increases i see no reason why limited wish couldn't give a permanent feat


I know of 2 spells that can give you a feat for 1 minute per level, and both can easily be duplicated by Limited Wish:

  • Paragon Surge (already mentioned above) -- normally Half-Elf only, but if you are not a Half-Elf (so that it effectively isn't on your spell list), Limited Wish can still duplicate it, even if your Opposition School is Transmutation; if you were a Half-Elf you would just use the actual spell, since it is on an awful lot of arcane lists (including all of the ones that have Limited Wish), but if you are not a Half-Elf, this will do the job (expensively).
  • Tactical Adaptation -- not restricted to Half-Elves, but only on the Magus spell list (unless something gets it as a bonus spell), so if you are not a Magus, you will need to duplicate it with Limited Wish, which can do so even if your Opposition School is Transmutation.
Since each of these spells gives you only 1 feat per day even if you cast it again, it is useful to be able to access both of them so that you can get 2 different feats in 1 day. This includes the situation in which you need to get both the feat you really want but don't have and its prerequisite that you also don't have.

And now all of a sudden I have the urge to make a Half-Elf Magus or Eldritch Knight, so that I don't NEED to shell out for Limited Wish to do the above . . . .


UnArcaneElection wrote:
I know of 2 spells that can give you a feat for 1 minute per level, and both can easily be duplicated by Limited Wish:
  • Paragon Surge (already mentioned above) -- normally Half-Elf only, but if you are not a Half-Elf (so that it effectively isn't on your spell list), Limited Wish can still duplicate it, even if your Opposition School is Transmutation; if you were a Half-Elf you would just use the actual spell, since it is on an awful lot of arcane lists (including all of the ones that have Limited Wish), but if you are not a Half-Elf, this will do the job (expensively).
  • Tactical Adaptation -- not restricted to Half-Elves, but only on the Magus spell list (unless something gets it as a bonus spell), so if you are not a Magus, you will need to duplicate it with Limited Wish, which can do so even if your Opposition School is Transmutation.
Since each of these spells gives you only 1 feat per day even if you cast it again, it is useful to be able to access both of them so that you can get 2 different feats in 1 day. This includes the situation in which you need to get both the feat you really want but don't have and its prerequisite that you also don't have.

And now all of a sudden I have the urge to make a Half-Elf Magus or Eldritch Knight, so that I don't NEED to shell out for Limited Wish to do the above . . . .

take a 1 level dip into brawler for the martial flexibility thing too

Shadow Lodge

I guess, but what would you do with three feet?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
I guess, but what would you do with three feet?

+2 circumstance bonus on perform (dance?)

Oh, but I guess if two were LEFT feet you'd have a -2 instead... Better be specific!


Minor correction to what I posted above: Tactical Adaptation can only get you a Combat Feat (whether duplicated by Limited Wish or cast as a normal spell), whereas Paragon Surge does not have this restriction. Still good to have both, though, since the Combat Feats are the ones that more commonly have feat taxes.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
I guess, but what would you do with three feet?

I am not sure, but I would do it in the yard.

/cevah

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / An i use limited wish to take extra feat ? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.