Adjusting a race for game


Homebrew

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Lady-J wrote:
*Thelith wrote:
But it's very good for a non caster to have 10d6 of an elemental type that affects an area. Too good. Especially at low levels.
level 10 is not low level......

I was referring to a breath weapon that scales 1d6 per Bab. At low level that's too good for say a fighter to have as a racial.


*Thelith wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
*Thelith wrote:
But it's very good for a non caster to have 10d6 of an elemental type that affects an area. Too good. Especially at low levels.
level 10 is not low level......
I was referring to a breath weapon that scales 1d6 per Bab. At low level that's too good for say a fighter to have as a racial.

It's not going to be a racial trait. It's going to be a feat.


*Thelith wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
*Thelith wrote:
But it's very good for a non caster to have 10d6 of an elemental type that affects an area. Too good. Especially at low levels.
level 10 is not low level......
I was referring to a breath weapon that scales 1d6 per Bab. At low level that's too good for say a fighter to have as a racial.

its a feat not a racial


A racial feat... That gives a breath weapon on par with a true dragons breath weapon... Its a home brew and you can do what you wish but don't pretend it's balanced with other races and other racial feats.


I don't plan to make it that powerful. They can't get it at anything lower than level 5 and the max damage is going to be 7d6 if I do decide to scale it at all.


*Thelith wrote:
A racial feat... That gives a breath weapon on par with a true dragons breath weapon... Its a home brew and you can do what you wish but don't pretend it's balanced with other races and other racial feats.

umm no its not real dragon breath weapons do more damage, has better range, can be used all day as opposed to daily uses it is very much not on par with a true dragons breath weapon


Heather 540 wrote:
I don't plan to make it that powerful. They can't get it at anything lower than level 5 and the max damage is going to be 7d6 if I do decide to scale it at all.

This makes better sense.

Thank you for clarifying the intent.


You're welcome.


Ok, I'm thinking of making one more trait selection that would replace Flight. It could combine Ferocity and Fast. It's a net loss of one point, but that's still pretty balanced, right?

Fast (1 RP)
Prerequisites: Normal speed.

Benefit: Members of this race gain a +10 foot bonus to their base speed.

Special: This trait can be taken more than once, but each time it is, the cost increases by 1 RP. Its effects stack.

*****
Ferocity (4 RP)
Prerequisites: None.

Benefit: Members of this race gain the following extraordinary ability: If the hit points of a member of this race fall below 0 but it is not yet dead, it can continue to fight. If it does, it is staggered, and loses 1 hit point each round. It still dies when its hit points reach a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.


Heather 540 wrote:

Ok, I'm thinking of making one more trait selection that would replace Flight. It could combine Ferocity and Fast. It's a net loss of one point, but that's still pretty balanced, right?

Fast (1 RP)
Prerequisites: Normal speed.

Benefit: Members of this race gain a +10 foot bonus to their base speed.

Special: This trait can be taken more than once, but each time it is, the cost increases by 1 RP. Its effects stack.

*****
Ferocity (4 RP)
Prerequisites: None.

Benefit: Members of this race gain the following extraordinary ability: If the hit points of a member of this race fall below 0 but it is not yet dead, it can continue to fight. If it does, it is staggered, and loses 1 hit point each round. It still dies when its hit points reach a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.

i would probably go with something that adds to saves vs paralysis and immunity to magical sleep over ferocity


You think so?


Heather 540 wrote:
You think so?

ya it would make them more dragonesk and ferocity is kinda bad


Ok.


Alright, Archives of Nethys doesn't have a section for building new races, and d20pfsrd doesn't have a single trait that gives bonuses to saves against sleep and paralysis.

Would a trait that make one immune to both be worth about 4 points? And would it be a valid replacement with flight? Still including the Fast trait to give a boost to land speed.


elven immunities grant immunity to magic sleep and +2 to saves vs enchantments and are valued at 2rp so i would say immunity to both plus the fast trait and a +2 boost to a skill and +2 boost to saves vs their own element would be an appropriate trade off


Ok. I guess I would word it like this:

Members of this race are immune to paralysis and magical sleep effects. Their land speed increases by 10 feet and gain +2 to (insert Skill here). They also receive a +2 to saves against spells with one energy type. This type must match Energy Resistance. This replaces Flight.

They originally came with a boost to Intimidate, so I'll make that the skill here.


wasn't it intimidate and diplomacy? if that was the case they should get a choice between the two


Fair enough.


I've decided to just use the given list for the languages, only I'm going to switch out Kobald and Minotaur for Halfling and Gnomish.

So they start off with Common and Draconic. And they can also pick from Dwarvish, Elemental, Elvish, Infernal, Gnomish, Halfling, and Ghoulish/Undercommon.


elemental is not a language not sure why they have it have it as a language they can know, ignan, teran, aquan and auran are the four elemental languages


Really?


ya to my knowledge there are only 34 languages in pathfinder
Aboleth, Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Boggard, Celestial, Common, Cyclops, Dark Folk, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Druidic, Dwarven, D’ziriak, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Grippli, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Necril, Orc, Protean, Sphinx, Sylvan, Tengu, Terran, Treant, Undercommon, Vegepygmy


Well, it's a third party race to begin with. There's probably third party languages.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

In 5th Edition, there is a language called Primordial that has 4 dialects: Aquan, Auran, Ignan, and Terran. You just need to know Primordial to speak to water wierds, invisible stalkers, azers, and galeb duhr. :-)


Maybe that's what they meant by elemental as a language.


I think I've figured out how to make the breath weapon feat work.

Required: Character level 5, dragonkin. Feat: Gain a breath attack in the shape of a 30-foot cone. This attack does 4d6 damage and can be used 2 times a day plus Cha. At level 9 and every 4 levels after, increase damage by 1d6 for a maximum of 7d6 at level 17. Ref save for zero damage. At level 12, Ref save for half damage. If you possess the Energy Resistance racial trait, this attack must match the type chosen. Otherwise choose Acid, Fire, Cold, or Lightning. This choice cannot be changed.


Oh, and I need help figuring out the DC for this.


I'd set the dc at 10+1/2 character level+either con or cha. You seem to be leaning cha. However is also qualify it with a once every 1d4 rounds. Space it out a little. At 5th level that's a pretty great effect for a fighter or the like so giving the 1d4 rounds means they can't always just spam it one after another. Other than that seems balanced.


Sounds fair. Thanks.


also make it cha or con modifier not cha or con otherwise they will be potentially running around with 20+ uses per day also reflex for zero dmg should be removed its basically giving all enemies evasion for free which kinda defeats the point of even having a breath weapon


I meant the mod. I'm just used to leaving out the word mod on my character sheets since it takes up room. I'll make sure to include it in the wording of the feat. I'll consider the ref save.


Breath weapon should be tied to Con not Cha... the save for 0 damage is built into the breath weapon of the race builder so it's fine to leave it like you have it and eventually save for half once you're a bigger dragonkin makes sense.


*Thelith wrote:
Breath weapon should be tied to Con not Cha... the save for 0 damage is built into the breath weapon of the race builder so it's fine to leave it like you have it and eventually save for half once you're a bigger dragonkin makes sense.

which is stupid no aoe effect does no dmg on a passed save unless they have evasion


Both of you make good points.


Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it is stupid, nor should you use that as an argument... It's a feature that is specifically called out in creating a breath attack which is what Heather 540 is doing.


*Thelith wrote:
Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it is stupid, nor should you use that as an argument... It's a feature that is specifically called out in creating a breath attack which is what Heather 540 is doing.

its not a disagreement its a fact, giving every one that is a target of an aoe free evasion is stupid and i don't know why they thought it was a good idea to put into the book because every aoe effect that does damage starts off at save for half making it save for no damage is making a useless ability


The good thing about having baseline reflex save for zero damage is that characters cannot apply evasion or improved evasion to their saves (they are only for reflex saves that deal half damage on a successful save). Provided they put up with it long enough, their breath weapon eventually becomes better than most other attacks.


You can't just proclaim something as fact because you believe it.


I'll consider how I want to breath attack to work.


*Thelith wrote:
You can't just proclaim something as fact because you believe it.

no i'm saying its fact based on basic game mechanics that have been around for years that the ability blatantly ignores


So, what could I do for favored class options? I guess I could just borrow from other race lists.


+1/5 uses of breath weapon per day
+1/3 DC to breath weapon save
+1/4 energy resist
+1/5 natural AC
+1 dmg on breath weapon


Lady-J wrote:
*Thelith wrote:
You can't just proclaim something as fact because you believe it.
no i'm saying its fact based on basic game mechanics that have been around for years that the ability blatantly ignores

Obviously the creators disagree with you...as this mechanic exists.


Those sounds pretty good.


favored class bonuses are generally based on improving class mechanics as opposed to race mechanics

sorc-increased damage of spells by 1 only for the same element they are
wizard-add 1/2 to the number of daily uses of a wizard school power this can only be applied to school abilities gained at level 1
fighter- +1 to cmd vs effects that would prevent flight and +1 to cmd to grapple maneuvers
barbarian- +1/4 barbarian dr
rogue- +1/6th rogue talent

these kind of things recommend looking over each class and seeing if anything stands out at what you would like that already exists for other races that they could have or give you an idea of what kind of things get boosted for favored class bonuses for each class


*Thelith wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
*Thelith wrote:
You can't just proclaim something as fact because you believe it.
no i'm saying its fact based on basic game mechanics that have been around for years that the ability blatantly ignores
Obviously the creators disagree with you...as this mechanic exists.

just because something gets made by paizo doesn't make it not stupid, don't believe me just look up the brute archetype for vigilantes then come back and say paizo can't make stupid things every once and a while


I'm slowly going through the classes and picking out the favored bonuses I like best from their list. Here's what I have so far:

Alchemist: +1 to Craft Alchemy checks to create poison and +1/4 to the DC of poisons they create.
Arcanist: +1/6 to the number of points gained in arcane reserve each day.
Barbarian: +1/2 to the total number of rage rounds each day.
Bard: +1 to CMD when resisting Disarm or Sunder.
Bloodrager: +1/2 to total number of bloodrage rounds each day.
Brawler: +1 to CMD when resisting Trip or Overrun.
Cavalier: +1 to mount’s HP. Transferred to any new mount.
Cleric: +1/3 to damage dealt or healed when using channel energy.
Druid: +1 to companion’s HP. Transferred to any new companion.
Fighter: +1 to CMD when resisting Bull Rush or Trip.
Gunslinger: +1/4 to grit point total.


you may want to fix the barbarian and bloodrager favored class bonuses, each existing race that gives bonus rage rounds does it at 1 full rage round per favored class bonus so your dragon kin barbarians/bloodragers will be far behind all others in terms of favored class bonus


nod


Oracle: Choose a revelation with daily uses of at least 3+Cha a day. +1/2 use a day.
(I'm going to go with Oracle as my favored class for my NPC.)

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