There is a disagreement at our table right now about the interpretation of the Vesk's Natural Weapons ability.
One perspective is that, except for being nonarchaic and lethal, they only work as described on the weapons chart for Unarmed Strikes, doing bludgeoning damage only, and only with arms legs and tail. no bite.
The other perspective is that the Vesk natural weapons are three separate kinds of attacks that do different kinds of damage, and that these attacks do include the ability to bite, but are otherwise identical to above.
For Reference:
Unarmed Strike
An unarmed strike can be dealt with any limb or appendage. Unarmed strikes deal nonlethal damage, and the damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus to weapon damage rolls.
Natural Weapons
Vesk are always considered armed. They can deal 1d3 lethal damage with unarmed strikes and the attack doesn’t count as archaic. Vesk gain a unique weapon specialization with their natural weapons at 3rd level, allowing them to add 1–1/2 × their character level to their damage rolls for their natural weapons (instead of just adding their character level, as usual).
Vesk
Though they’ve long since adopted technological weapons, they retain the thick claws and teeth of natural predators and enjoy using them to intimidate “softer” races. In addition, they also have long, powerful tails—while these are primarily used for balance, some vesk martial arts incorporate formidable tail slaps
We are interested in feedback from the community, but it would be REALLY great to get a Developer in here to let us know what their Official Interpretation/Intention is.
AtD
I could get behind the idea of the ability doing the different kinds of damage. Although personally, I'd limit it to the player picking the type and sticking with it.
For instance, if they selected piercing, this could be flavored as the Vesk doing bite attacks, slapping an enemy with a horned tail, or even punching with a thorny fist.
Does that make sense?
1d3 is nothing and as a DM I would allow it either claws or bite. Even a horned tail seems fine. I mean look at these Vesk Teeth. Why wouldn't they do lethal damage? But I let my players try to convince me why something should be and if it sounds right I go with it.
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There is a disagreement at our table right now about the interpretation of the Vesk's Natural Weapons ability.
One perspective is that, except for being nonarchaic and lethal, they only work as described on the weapons chart for Unarmed Strikes, doing bludgeoning damage only, and only with arms legs and tail. no bite.
This is how I would rule it, if you're really interested in a biting vesk, I highly recommend the ring of fangs from Dead Suns 2, it is a weapon slot but it gives you 2x specialization instead of 1.5x.
Of course a Vesk can bite!
A human can bite so done easily enough, so why not a Vesk? They've got all the right body parts for it.
Of course a Vesk can bite!
A human can bite so done easily enough, so why not a Vesk? They've got all the right body parts for it.
But can he bite as part of his Natural Weapons racial ability? Thoughts?
AtD
There is a disagreement at our table right now about the interpretation of the Vesk's Natural Weapons ability.
One perspective is that, except for being nonarchaic and lethal, they only work as described on the weapons chart for Unarmed Strikes, doing bludgeoning damage only, and only with arms legs and tail. no bite.
Its not really about wanting a character who can bite. We want to know what the official interpretation is on this for rules reasons.
AtD
From a strict reading, it's lethal unarmed strikes. Unarmed strike is listed as bludgeoning only in the weapon chart.
Regarding damage, I grabbed improved unarmed strike on my home game vesk soldier and routinely punch things for more damage than my light reaction cannon. Level 6, 16 str, I do 1d6+12 punching, whereas I do 1d10+8 with the gun (the soldier projectile thingy adds 2 damage). Even at 1d3, the modifier makes up for the damage drop pretty effectively. Not sure how wealth works out for SFS, but the value of upgrading the gun has been questionable vs other purchases, save for the possibility of getting fusions on it.
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Will be honest, my first thought was not 'Can a Vesk bite you?' but 'Are you worthy of their teeth?'
I guess a similar question is, can a Human with Improved Unarmed Strike bite a person for their IUS damage?
AtD
Sure, but it's easier to headbutt.
I guess a similar question is, can a Human with Improved Unarmed Strike bite a person for their IUS damage?
AtD
I would certainly allow it.
Anyone making attacks unarmed, or with natural attacks, should probably have a ring of fangs anyways.
I guess a similar question is, can a Human with Improved Unarmed Strike bite a person for their IUS damage?
AtD
I would certainly allow it.
Anyone making attacks unarmed, or with natural attacks, should probably have a ring of fangs anyways.
And would you have that monkey bite do Piercing or Bludgeoning damage?
AtD
Ring of fangs makes it piercing.
Looking at the Alien Archive, bites do Piercing, claws do Slashing
Its true that every race with natural weapons in that book has their damage type identified. Claws all do Slashing or Piercing, Horns do Piercing.
Example:Reptoids
Natural Weapons: Reptoids are always considered to be armed when they are not using their change shape ability. They can deal 1d3 lethal slashing damage with unarmed0 strikes, and the attack does not count as archaic. Reptoids gain a unique weapon specialization with their natural weapons at 3rd level, allowing them to add 1·1/2 their character level to their damage rolls for their natural weapons (instead of adding just their character level. as usual).
AtD
Looking at the Alien Archive, bites do Piercing, claws do Slashing
And without the ring?
AtD
I assume you're talking about the ring from the AP? No idea about that, what it does or how it's written.
It grants the best form of natural/unarmed attack in the game currently.
While wearing it, you can make unarmed strike bite attacks that deal piercing damage. What's more, if you are 3rd level or higher, you automatically gain a special version of the Weapon Specialization feat that adds double your level to the damage of these unarmed attacks (rather than adding your level).
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Looking at the Alien Archive, bites do Piercing, claws do SlashingAnd without the ring?
AtD
Sorry, I replied to the wrong person's comment...
Ring of fangs makes it piercing.
What about a human bite with IUS but without the ring?
AtD
As written, all Vesk "natural weapon" attacks do bludgeoning damage because it gives you a special unarmed strike, as I said above. It doesn't matter if you flavor that as biting or something else. If you want to do other types of damage, that's either some manner of item/enhancement or a house rule.
My view is that the rules are bludgeoning only (however you choose to describe the attack).
Personally, I’d allow a vesk with improved unarmed strike to choose between bludgeoning, piercing and slashing depending on whether it was a tail, claw or bite attack respectively.
I think that’s a power boost to the feat though, not the way the rules are intended.
Just fyi, mods have asked us in the past not to put FAQ Request in thread titles. Doing so probably doesn't help your chances of getting an FAQ.
Thanks for the heads up. Is there a way to properly submit something for FAQ?
AtD