Non-lethal frag grenades??


Rules Questions


There's nothing stopping you from tossing a grenade (or using literally any weapon) non-lethally, is that correct?

Starfinder Combat wrote:

Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon That Deals Lethal Damage

You can use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a –4 penalty to your attack roll.

For reference, in Pathfinder this was only allowed with melee weapons.

Pathfinder Combat wrote:

Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage

You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll.

So I can toss a non-lethal frag grenade by hitting AC 9 instead of AC 5, or shoot someone non-lethally with my gun?


I would say the answer is "no". If the rules say otherwise, then the rules are wrong and need to be edited.


"Set phasers to stun" is kind of a sci-fi staple, and in reality there isn't any really reliable way of doing non-lethal damage even with melee weapons

Can you set a frag grenade to stun, though? I'd say probably no


Near as I can tell there's no limitation for grenades when it comes to nonlethal damage. However it's worth noting that the -4 penalty on attack rolls also applies to the saving throw DC. Lethal grenades used in a nonlethal manner are much easier to resist taking damage from.


Renata Maclean wrote:

"Set phasers to stun" is kind of a sci-fi staple, and in reality there isn't any really reliable way of doing non-lethal damage even with melee weapons

Can you set a frag grenade to stun, though? I'd say probably no

And the game supports Setting To Stun. . . by giving various weapons the Stun property.

There reaches a point where "attack nonlethally with weapon" just doesn't pass the basic sanity test. "Using a fragmentation grenade non-lethally" is well past that line. If you want to stun somebody with a grenade, buy a grenade that has the Stun property.


Metaphysician wrote:
Renata Maclean wrote:

"Set phasers to stun" is kind of a sci-fi staple, and in reality there isn't any really reliable way of doing non-lethal damage even with melee weapons

Can you set a frag grenade to stun, though? I'd say probably no

And the game supports Setting To Stun. . . by giving various weapons the Stun property.

There reaches a point where "attack nonlethally with weapon" just doesn't pass the basic sanity test. "Using a fragmentation grenade non-lethally" is well past that line. If you want to stun somebody with a grenade, buy a grenade that has the Stun property.

I don't think there are stun grenades? And the "sanity test" isn't allowed here, this is the Rules forum, RAW is god here :P

I'm mostly asking because I'm planning a series of "police on Absalom Station" adventures, and I imagine nonlethal damage will play an important role. I was distraught to find out about how they nerfed nonlethal damage (declaring nonlethal has zero effect unless you use it for the "killing" blow,) and rather perplexed that they made this rule change to possibly "balance" that change?

Honestly I will probably encourage people to use Pathfinder rules for nonlethal damage, as the little bit of extra bookkeeping is probably worth it to use the rule system that seems just all-around-better otherwise.

Liberty's Edge

I don't think Frag grenades can do nonlethal damage because they cause piercing damage when they explode.

There are no stun grenades, which seem odd. There are Flash (blindness) Stickybomb (entangled), and Smoke (concealment) grenades. These, at lower tiers, don't cause any damage.

An interesting question that we will hopefully get mor information on at some point.


Metaphysician wrote:

And the game supports Setting To Stun. . . by giving various weapons the Stun property.

There reaches a point where "attack nonlethally with weapon" just doesn't pass the basic sanity test. "Using a fragmentation grenade non-lethally" is well past that line. If you want to stun somebody with a grenade, buy a grenade that has the Stun property.

I don't find the idea particularly insane. Maybe we're working by A-Team logic where grenades just send people flying. Maybe there's a science-fiction gizmo built in where you press the 'nonlethal' button before throwing it. Maybe the deadly fragments are blocked by enemy armor.


I would just put a merciful Fusion on a frag grenade and call it a day.

Liberty's Edge

In real life today, we really don't have a stun grenade. What we have is flash-bang that uses sound and light to blind and deafen the target for a few seconds. People are not truly "stunned".

also, flash-bangs don't send fragments of metal around like a "fragmentation" grenade is designed to do.

This being said, Starfinder is a fantasy game and if the GM allows, the move fun to be had!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm imagining a frag grenade filled with rubber bullets rather than metal shrapnel. The container could easily be made of a similar nonlethal material.


Like heavy cardboard?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
John Napier 698 wrote:
Like heavy cardboard?

Or rubber or light plastic.


Oh, that could be done easily, sure. It just would be its own weapon, that *always* does nonlethal damage.


Do the rules support using grenades nonlethally? Absolutely, they are considered weapons, after all. And there is no limitation on the damage type of nonlethal damage. A piercing melee weapon wielded nonlethally still does piercing damage.
Does it seem balanced? Yes, because the -4 to attack also reduces any DCs by 4. So, you're going to be doing nonlethal damage, but much less damage which balances out the still quite certain hit.
Would I allow it in my game? Hard to say. Because this is not a different item, it's still the very same frag grenade and you somehow make it deal nonlethal damage. And it's hard to handwave or fluff around it because it still deals piercing damage.

All in all, I'd say it checks out.

The Exchange

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Well they are high tech items, you could say they all contain a non lethal mode, if that helps with the feel of the game. The rules support it or at this point seem to. So making the story fit is the main barrier. Frag grenades for instance might deploy a force field around itself(fluff force fields seem to be extremely common in SF and are the only way 99% of armor works), to reduce the power of the explosion, or something similar. That would also explain why there are no nonlethal grenades in the book that fire soft rubber pellets, pure conclusive force, or lower levels of electricity, they aren’t separate items because it’s actually a standard feature.


At a paltry 1d6 damage, your odds of killing anything other than a small dog are pretty unlikely.

Hence the stock standard grenade is non-lethal :p

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