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No Damaging Fire Cantrip Spell


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


Why is there no fire cantrip that causes damage directly like jolt/acid splash/Ray of Frost?


Obviously there's no reason you couldn't have a simple fire spell. Though in all honesty I am glad they don't just have interchangeable spells for every level. A fireball, a coldball, an acid ball. There is an energy substitution feat or the Admixture ability of evokers that allow for altering spells. Sure it sucks to have to increase a spell's level to get the energy type you want, but I think if you just had a bunch of otherwise equal spells (other than energy type) it would hugely diminish the point and versatility of a caster able to manipulate such things.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

How about: "Why do all damage dealing cantrips completely and utterly suck?" Would it completely and utterly imbalance the game to have cantrips scale at 1/2 level? I really don't think it would.


Research a Spell [Ultimate Campaign]
The Core Rulebook allows you to perform spell research, either to create a new spell or learn an existing spell from another source. In the downtime system, the steps for spell research each day are as follows.

#1 Pay 100 gp × the spell's level [.5] for research costs and rare ingredients. So 50gp

#2 Determine the total days of progress required to complete the research, which is 7 × the spell level [.5]. So 3.5 days, rounded up to 4.

#3 Determine the spell research DC, which is 10 + twice the spell's level [1]. So DC 11

#4 Attempt a Spellcraft check and a Knowledge check (arcana) against the spell research DC. You can't take 10 on these checks. If both checks succeed, you make 1 day's progress toward completing the spell. When your days of progress equal the total number of days needed, the spell is completed and added to your spellbook or list of spells known.

#5 If either or both spell research checks fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. For each check that fails by 5 or more, your research has led to poor results and you lose a day of progress toward completing the spell.

Scarab Sages

For what it's worth, I actually also think cantrips should deal meaningful damage for their level. A d8 would be appropriate. If you think it undervalues your 1st level damage spells, how about making the 1st level damage spells not terrible either?

Okay. Seriously. Rant over.


graystone wrote:

Research a Spell [Ultimate Campaign]

The Core Rulebook allows you to perform spell research, either to create a new spell or learn an existing spell from another source. In the downtime system, the steps for spell research each day are as follows.

#1 Pay 100 gp × the spell's level [.5] for research costs and rare ingredients. So 50gp

#2 Determine the total days of progress required to complete the research, which is 7 × the spell level [.5]. So 3.5 days, rounded up to 4.

#3 Determine the spell research DC, which is 10 + twice the spell's level [1]. So DC 11

#4 Attempt a Spellcraft check and a Knowledge check (arcana) against the spell research DC. You can't take 10 on these checks. If both checks succeed, you make 1 day's progress toward completing the spell. When your days of progress equal the total number of days needed, the spell is completed and added to your spellbook or list of spells known.

#5 If either or both spell research checks fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. For each check that fails by 5 or more, your research has led to poor results and you lose a day of progress toward completing the spell.

its actually 1000g per spell level and it would be a 0 level spell so 1000 gold x0 is 0


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lady-J wrote:
its actually 1000g per spell level and it would be a 0 level spell so 1000 gold x0 is 0

For cost calculation purposes, 0-level spells are treated as 1/2 level spells. Otherwise their costs would always be free.

And Ultimate Campaign changed it to 100gp/level.


Jeraa wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
its actually 1000g per spell level and it would be a 0 level spell so 1000 gold x0 is 0
For cost calculation purposes, 0-level spells are treated as 1/2 level spells. Otherwise their costs would always be free.

were's that rule cuz i don't see it, plus what would it matter anyway cantrips are pretty garbage anyway

Silver Crusade

Except that, for such things, a cantrip counts as a level 1/2


Lady-J wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
its actually 1000g per spell level and it would be a 0 level spell so 1000 gold x0 is 0
For cost calculation purposes, 0-level spells are treated as 1/2 level spells. Otherwise their costs would always be free.
were's that rule cuz i don't see it, plus what would it matter anyway cantrips are pretty garbage anyway

Magic item creation. It should apply in every case, not just item creation. And by the wording, it can.

Quote:
0-Level Spells: When multiplying spell levels to determine value, 0-level spells should be treated as 1/2 level.


Jeraa wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
its actually 1000g per spell level and it would be a 0 level spell so 1000 gold x0 is 0
For cost calculation purposes, 0-level spells are treated as 1/2 level spells. Otherwise their costs would always be free.
were's that rule cuz i don't see it, plus what would it matter anyway cantrips are pretty garbage anyway

Magic item creation. It should apply in every case, not just item creation. And by the wording, it can.

Quote:
0-Level Spells: When multiplying spell levels to determine value, 0-level spells should be treated as 1/2 level.

can you provide a link to that ruling?


also how do we tell paizo their quoting mechanism is broken again


Words of Power rises to the occasion again, featuring not only a fire cantrip, but a fire cantrip that could be ranged, melee, or an area effect spells.

Flame Jet with either Cone or Selected as its target word.

For the cost of a feat(Experimental Spellcaster) you can learn that effect word and all the target words.

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