Modifiers to Riposte roll (Swashbuckler Opportune Parry and Riposte deed)

[Larris Magpie]

A Calistria following swashbuckler has taken the Opportunist religious trait from Ultimate Campaign (+1 to AoOs). When performing a parrying deed, its description says, "the swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity;" which I interpret as the +1 trait modifier is indeed applicable to this roll.

Not as clear to me is the opportunity of following up a successful parry with a riposte: "the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried". Is it reasonable to treat this second attack roll too as a "bonus" AoO, applying any AoO-specific modifiers, negative and positive?

I'm asking both RAI and RAW, if anyone knows if this question has been raised before.

[TrinitysEnd]

As far as I am aware, the parry counts as an AoO for the purpose of things, but the riposte is just a basic attack.

[Chess Pwn]

nope, if it's not eating up an AoO it's for sure not an AoO.

[Larris Magpie]

It does however eat up the immediate action, which might be seen as being a more heavy cost than just an AoO. With this in mind, continuing with the same modifiers throughout the deed seems a more reasonable interpretation.

[blahpers]

By that reasoning, you might as well apply the trait to standard action attacks, the first attack in a full-attack, and so on. Abilities do what they say they do; no more and no less.

[Larris Magpie]

Understood. Thanks!

[BigNorseWolf]

Yes, it counts as an AoO. Fencer is a popular trait for swashbucklers too for that reason.

[Larris Magpie]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Yes, it counts as an AoO. Fencer is a popular trait for swashbucklers too for that reason.

So it's a contested ruling. I'm still not quite sure what's fair here.

[Chess Pwn]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Yes, it counts as an AoO. Fencer is a popular trait for swashbucklers too for that reason.

Why do you think the riposte counts as an AoO?

[Xellrael]

Larris Magpie wrote:

..."the swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity;" ...

That is from the Advanced Class Guide Playtest. This is what is says in the current version:

Spoiler:

Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature’s result, the creature’s attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature’s attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach. This deed’s cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the number of panache points a deed costs.

Parry is a specific action with a specific cost. It costs 1 panache point and 1 attack of opportunity. It allows you to make an attack roll to compare to your opponent's attack roll. Riposte is an attack made as an immediate action, nothing more.

Neither parry nor riposte counts as an attack of opportunity. Neither will be affected by things that specifically modify AOO's.

[Perfect Tommy]

I find no significant variance between saying you can take an attack of opportunity, you can use an attack of opportunity, you can expend an attack of opportunity.

Certainly, it can be argued either way. But I prefer, and believe that a game resolves into discrete components. AoO's. Std Action. Full Round actions, etc., rather than an innumerable number of special cases that your interpretation supposes.

[Xellrael]

Sorry Tommy (and everyone), I was wrong!

I misread the passage while sick and sleep-deprived. :(

Parry gets the bonuses. Riposte does not.

[Jurassic Pratt]

It's pretty simple actually and shouldn't be contested in any way. Parry says that it's made as if it was AoO and Riposte says nothing of the sort. Thus modifiers that apply to your AoOs apply to parries, but not ripostes.