Ok, long story short: I am the GM, the party has the macguffin, and they have rebuked all opportunities to get it to move into any NPC's hands. So the story has stalled as they mess about with side quests.
The setting is in a bustling small city north of Katapesh.
My idea is for them to meet in the black market and get a contact to sell the macguffin. I want that someone to be a Kitsune shape changer, they direct the party to their "contact" (The same kitsune) for a daylight meeting in a back alley.
Naturally the party is going to be alert (and paranoid as the maguffin is a fist sized gem worth a decent amount) and expecting an attack or an attempt.
The party is 5th level with no full casters, but some 40ft movement sylph swashbuckler mesmer (and a half elf ranger/monk/slayer, a half orc Skald, and a Human gunslinger/scroll wizard with a pistol).
What is a great fast thief build for a Kitsune with the fast shifter and fox shape racial feat?
How can I reliably get the maguffin from the parties hands into my thieves, and keep it there long enough to start a shape-changing chase sequence through back alleys, under fences, and among crowds? Would a dash and grab spring attack be good? Grabbing spells? Mass stuns? Dimension door? How can I resist the dreaded readied action?
My thoughts are silent image "guards", fireworks (also alerting the city guard), liberal application of the grease spell, preset traps, or tar papers. maybe they could have a ranged accomplice, I don't want to kill or maim the party, just steal from them!
If they can distrust or hate Shape-shifters all the better (plot related it comes up in later zones of the setting, if I can get them there naturally). This will be my first serious chase sequence as a GM (My players have had great luck in ending them before they begin). And the first time I am doing more than stealing a few coins with a general pickpocket event.
Thank you all in advance.
Why steal from them when you could just *buy* it from them for less than the 'true' value, but far greater than any other vendor would provide for the macguffin?
It sounds like they're in a market to sell, after all.
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Little do they know that the insane amount of coin they were just given is a minuscule fraction of its *true* value when combined with the three other pieces that reconstitute a major artifact lost for centuries...
If you are using silent image, why not silent image a bunch of stones to look like smaller gem stones that the kitsune pays with
If you’re certain you want to scam them: Make the kitsune an arcane trickster. The “contact” is a 1HD simulacrum built for this purpose. Once they reveal the gem ranged telekineticly steal it (the arcane trickster thing) from a nearby rooftop or inside a building with a small gem-sized hole for this purpose.
Make sure you have a maxed slight of hand for the “lift” Then make your exit via teleport/ invisible and sneak/ shapeshifter and sneak/ etc.
Even A low level arcane trickster could do this with a couple of scrolls and a decent sleight of hand roll.
Hell, a wizard could do it with about three (maybe 4) scrolls.
I should mention the party knows the major buyer is one of the bad guys, and they have only vague notions who else is working for the baddies (Classic double blind intrigue city campaign). They want to ascertain the value of the item without trading it away to foes, they also want more specific information on the gems purpose, and maybe get an idea of who else may want the thing. Kidnapping and questioning their gem dealer is in the realm of possibilities for them. I'm fine if they catch the thief, but I want it to be a challenge.
So a blackmarket backalley deal is something they can use to mine for information without losing the item itself. They are more concerned about the moral consequences of the gems use than about getting paid for it (Believe me, that was the FIRST thing I tried).
So stealing it seems like my best option for getting it into a new baddies hands so they can begin tracking it down and following the clues through the evil chain of command once more. The tricky part is getting it away from them in the first place when they have mastered spell kenning, mesmer gazes, and readied actions.
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It sounds like their characters are making the rational decision to not make a dumb choice to fall into the contrived plot you have planned.
Like you know in movies when the "hero" makes a dumb mistake that he shouldn't make just to set the plot going? Well your player's don't want to make the dumb mistake because they know that the bad stuff that happens will happen.
So my recommendation might be to change your story.
Hmmm, Kitsune Ninja maybe?
Ninja Trick Level 2 - Vanishing Trick
Ninja Trick Level 4 - Shadow Clone(possibly to counter readied actions against ranged and melee, at least)
Casts Shadow Clone as a Standard Action, Vanishing Trick as a Swift Action. Then it goes in with a +20 on Stealth, move up to the one carrying the item. Next round it Sleight of Hands the item out of the wearers pockets(hopefully without them noticing) and use Vanishing Trick again to disappear and sneak off?
Could be useful to have the Kitsune character have the feat Deft Hands for a +2 on Sleight of Hand.
You said this might take place in an alley, so there are houses around, right? You could also take a feat for a Ninja Trick through the Extra Ninja Trick feat and pick up the Wall Climber Ninja Trick which grants you 20ft Climb Speed. Then the Kitsune can steal the item and dash up the wall of a house or something. That's not too easy to follow, unless someone in the party has readied some spell to do that. In which case, the Kitsune could go invisible or shapechange and run off.
I'd recommend against getting locked into a single plan of what will happen. Give your party multiple ways to 'win' (and maybe even a few ways to lose.)
They could realize the setup, and kill or capture the bad guy before he make the exchange, which can certainly be a win.
They could chase down the villain after being set up, which could be a win.
The could fail and lose their item, which would obviously be a loss.
Thinking about each, and how the various bad guys and the campaign world will react to each, rather than just focusing on a single plan will tend to make a better game.
If I was running your Kitsune though, I'd probably have the realistic likeness feat and, if I was planning a setup, would arrange the meet to be actually with someone else, either someone who I had paid for the job, or possibly just someone who I would be able to predict how they would react. For example, take the face of a bad tempered drunk, and arrange for the group to meet me in the alley (I know that the real drunk will be there) and I know that when the party approached their will probably be an altercation. My plan is to use this distraction to steal the MacGuffin and hopefully get away clean. A vanilla rogue with a few potions would quite likely succeed, but the PCs would have chances to derail my plot (perception checks, diplomacy to resolve the issue quickly, and of course anything the group could do to make it more difficult in general would effect the checks.) This would also have the potential to really inspire so shapeshifter hate.
I'd recommend against getting locked into a single plan of what will happen. Give your party multiple ways to 'win' (and maybe even a few ways to lose.)
I'd really support this way of thinking about the problem.
"What if" the various strands and think about how each of those could move the story forwards (not necessarily into the plot you have in your head - just forwards).
You only need to be one session ahead of your players after all; maybe losing the macguffin after striving for it and taking lots of precautions isn't going to feel like "due reward" for the players' efforts?
Maybe there's some other way to get the players on the bad guys trail?
Maybe this isn't the major macguffin you've been assuming, maybe it's just a minor key - enough to make the bad guys' lives easier, but not critical?
Maybe the players can get a read on the macguffin they've got to realise this, and that they need to start chasing down the real deal to stop all hell breaking loose?
Maybe that would feel like a reward for their good play - we got the key, we hung onto it, now we've got a read on the real threat?
Or maybe something entirely different :)
If you are using silent image, why not silent image a bunch of stones to look like smaller gem stones that the kitsune pays with
Because Silent Image can’t do that. There’s no way to “attach” the illusion, and (from the illusion rules) “Figments cannot make something seem to be something else.” You need glamers (like Disguise Self) for that, otherwise everybody would try to pay with fake gemstones.
Anyway, I’d be pretty annoyed as a player at having a situation obviously set up with metagaming to steal the item. Go with an attempt to buy it, failing over to a snatch-and-run attempt that they can genuinely stop with their superior ranged combat and good move speed.
Kitsune Ninja using ki to get +20 feet of speed. Maybe Extra Ki feat? You can make the ninja extra high level since it isn't a combat scenario, so you don't have to worry about a TPK. Maybe a ninja/bloodrager?
Is the main goal to steal the McGuffin, or to run the PCs through a chase sequence?
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why not just have them be a wizard and cast time stop then steal the item while they are in stasisKitsune Ninja using ki to get +20 feet of speed. Maybe Extra Ki feat? You can make the ninja extra high level since it isn't a combat scenario, so you don't have to worry about a TPK. Maybe a ninja/bloodrager?
Is the main goal to steal the McGuffin, or to run the PCs through a chase sequence?
I think the OP wants the PCs to either keep trying to get the item back, or use it in a particular way to advance the story.
Most 5th level PCs would be scared of having adversarial relations with a 17th level wizard. Also, throwing 9th level spells at a party with 2nd level spells is pretty much just doing things by DM fiat.
It also sounds like the main theme of this encounter is the chase. Having the McGuffin stolen and running someone down to retrieve it seems to be kind of the point. If the kitsune can timestop, it can also teleport away. Or at least dim door or fly or haste or even expeditious retreat.
that stuff just give the wizard more tools for the chase they are a kitune after all have them mess with the party b4 bringing the plotonium to their master/employerwhy not just have them be a wizard and cast time stop then steal the item while they are in stasisKitsune Ninja using ki to get +20 feet of speed. Maybe Extra Ki feat? You can make the ninja extra high level since it isn't a combat scenario, so you don't have to worry about a TPK. Maybe a ninja/bloodrager?
Is the main goal to steal the McGuffin, or to run the PCs through a chase sequence?
I think the OP wants the PCs to either keep trying to get the item back, or use it in a particular way to advance the story.
Most 5th level PCs would be scared of having adversarial relations with a 17th level wizard. Also, throwing 9th level spells at a party with 2nd level spells is pretty much just doing things by DM fiat.
It also sounds like the main theme of this encounter is the chase. Having the McGuffin stolen and running someone down to retrieve it seems to be kind of the point. If the kitsune can timestop, it can also teleport away. Or at least dim door or fly or haste or even expeditious retreat.
So far the party has essentially buried the macguffin where no side can get at it, hence the stall. They dug it up, started the factions race, then buried it -_- (metaphorically, they are hiding it in a false bottom keg with absurd bonuses to hiding it).
My hope is to have the party chase the shapshifter into the den of evil, or at least discover where the den of evil is located. A chase sequence would be fantastic, hence the lack of steal it in their sleep/K.O. poison darts/etc.
I want this to be a fair chase, with the party having a fair chance to catch up to the thief. if they catch the thief, then they can interrogate for info, if not... then they get to sneak/fight their way into the hidden nest of baddies to get it back. Then both the foes and the party can have a good look at each other, get a few more strings of plot rolling, and get a few more PC plot points for their personal stories and goals integrated. If they are clever they can overhear many important details about the gems use, the baddies plans, political connections, and maybe steal some more infiltration items while they are at it (Psychic mind reading 3rnds/day + gloves of reconnaissance should help). It will be up to them if they want to charge in in hot pursuit, or come back at night and sneak. Either way it should open up a lot of new avenues of intrigue for the party.
I am liking the Ninja climbing the wall, dropping to the other side and becoming someone else as the chase start. The trick is going to be the actual grab and counter readied actions.
Alternatively, local authority NPC could go 'I need this item turned over to my custody forthwith, or your party must leave this community/pay higher taxes/face jail time/etc/etc/ for security reasons.'
And then have it stolen from said authority figure, and the PCs can point at the figure and say 'SEE, we TOLD YA SO!'.
I think the kitsune ninja or ninja/bloodrager would be the most fun target. She can use parkour (Acrobatics and Climb), trickery (Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth), and magic (Ki boosts to speed, Expeditious Retreat via scroll, Vanishing Trick, etc.) to evade her pursuers. You can make her a ninja 12 and fill all those feat slots with Extra Ninja Tricks and/or Extra Ki and pull off all sorts of stunts.
Give her a sap, and non-lethal sneak attacks will only slow down the PCs, not kill them. You can even give her lower than normal stats to balance out her higher level. (I've been playing 5th Edition, so I'm used to 18 HD monsters being CR 5!)
I think PF has some fun Chase Rules. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/chases Use them to enhance the chase. You want to make it really fun, and provide a variety of challenges and choices during the chase: Social interactions, skill checks, saving throws, the occasional attack roll, vehicles and mounts, terrain features, squeeze rules, climbing, jumping, swimming, 3rd parties intervening (guards, thugs, street urchins, rival martial art schools, revelers, pilgrims, knights errant, etc.), runaway livestock, cranium rats, razorvine, hallucinatory flower pollen, monkeys throwing stinkfruit, grease spills, ice and snow and sleds, barrels, rolling logs in lumber mills, drunken dwarves, balance beams, secret doors in fences, rooftop shenanigans, etc.!
Just an update:
The theft went off well, a Kitsune Ninja waltzed out in disguise, asked for the item, and the party handed it over without any prepared actions, which was super unusual for them. I guess my previous distractions made them feel like this was really the target they needed t get to. A quick Ki-Wall phase followed by a run caught them by complete surprise. They used gloves of reconnaissance to see the Kitsunes new disguise through the wall. Then the chase was on, I used modified chase rules as the PF ones are quite terrible. It came down to just one PC with invisibility, spider climb, and limited health hanging onto the escape carriage (that they had set on fire with alchemist fire and lamp oil). Fortunately for me my BBEG used a swarm and the PC became nauseated (failed the DC by 1) and was forced to let go or be swarmed to death.
For those curious I used a slightly modified version of these rules HERE. With home made chase cards in 3 lanes (Sewers, Street, Rooftops) made to be relevant to the desert city. They enjoyed the chase and came within 1 above average attack of killing my Ninja (Thanks to faerie fire, Vanish was rendered moot).
Thank you SmiloDan for the environmental challenge ideas, I used more than a few of them.
Awesome! Sounds like a really fun encounter! :-D