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What happens if you put the Dual-Balanced weapon modification on a throwing weapon?
For example, a dagger. It is a melee weapon, so it meets the requirements to be able to put dual-balanced on it. The mod doesn't say it actually has to be used in melee to get the benefits, just that you can only add the mod to a melee weapon, which a dagger is.
So when you use TWF to throw two dual-balanced daggers, do you still get the penalty reduction?
What if you have one dual-balanced dagger and a Blinkback Belt and the Quick Draw feat? It's been established before that that's sufficient for TWF, so would you still get the dual-balanced benefit in that case?
Lastly, what if you were to apply it to something like two Dagger Pistols and use it to shoot? It's still technically a melee weapon, so it meets the requirement to be modded with dual-balanced. And, again, dual-balanced doesn't actually say it needs to be used in melee, only that it needs to be a melee weapon.
RAW, all those things work, since as you say it doesn't actually say "when used in melee."
RAI, none of those things work, because they darn well meant "when used in melee."
So, up to the GM but I'd recommend the second.
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RAW, all those things work, since as you say it doesn't actually say "when used in melee."
RAI, none of those things work, because they darn well meant "when used in melee."
So, up to the GM but I'd recommend the second.
I only half agree with that. Realistically speaking, having better balanced instances of those weapons, used in that way, WOULD allow you to be more accurate.
It is entirely possible, maybe even likely, that they intended for it to be used only in melee. If that's the case, I'd welcome an official ruling on it, though I doubt that's forthcoming.
The thing is, if they wanted it to be used outside melee, why wouldn't they say "Only melee and thrown weapons can be dual-balanced"? If it works for guns, especially, it should work for darts or shuriken, even though they're strictly non-melee.
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If I recall correctly, the text in question was added in development. So I can't speak to the exact intention. I personally don't have any issue with having it work for thrown weapons. ^_^
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If I recall correctly, the text in question was added in development. So I can't speak to the exact intention. I personally don't have any issue with having it work for thrown weapons. ^_^
Your input is very much appreciated. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the other two questions? About the Blinkback Belt and the Dagger Pistol situations?
I'm not sure I would have allowed the blinkback belt/single weapon combination to work in the first place, but if it works for regular TWF, I wouldn't treat this any differently.
The dagger pistol situation is slightly more complicated, but its dual nature allows for a unique solution - personally, I'd only apply the weapon modification benefit to the "dagger component". (Given how firearm accuracy plays out in practice, though, I doubt that allowing it to apply to the firearm component would be especially unbalanced. The dagger pistol does seem to create a lot of strange rules interactions in these "melee vs. ranged" cases.)
And as always, the disclaimer - I am not an official rules authority, and these are merely my personal opinions. ^_^
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And as always, the disclaimer - I am not an official rules authority, and these are merely my personal opinions. ^_^
While that may be true, it does help us to have some insight into the intentions when this was written, at least until any sort of official ruling materializes.
So, as I said, very much appreciated. Thank you.
The Dagger Pistol says it is a double weapon, so you could apply the modification on the dagger part, but it would not apply to the pistol part.
why are they melee only....... duel balanced could really help out twf hand crossbow builds
TWF penalties on things you aim with your eyes are already too low for my liking.
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was more asking what you were talking aboutWhat? Inappropriate gushing? Okay, deleted.-redacted-?
Isabelle's made a lot of cool stuff for Pathfinder, the kinetic knight archetype being one such thing that springs to mind.
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Freelance writer I think.
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The Dagger Pistol says it is a double weapon, so you could apply the modification on the dagger part, but it would not apply to the pistol part.
I don't actually see anything in the weapon mod rules that say they have to be applied twice to double weapons. Additionally, the dagger pistol only says it counts as a double weapon for crafting and enchanting, and this is technically neither of those things.
The Dagger Pistol says it is a double weapon, so you could apply the modification on the dagger part, but it would not apply to the pistol part.I don't actually see anything in the weapon mod rules that say they have to be applied twice to double weapons. Additionally, the dagger pistol only says it counts as a double weapon for crafting and enchanting, and this is technically neither of those things.
Sounds like an oversight in the weapon modification write-up. And creating a weapon with a modification is absolutely part of crafting.