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Jumping monk builds?


Advice


The somewhat misleading High Jump monk power:

Quote:
High Jump (Ex): A monk with this ki power adds his level as a bonus on all Acrobatics checks to jump, both for vertical jumps and horizontal jumps. In addition, he always counts as having a running start when attempting Acrobatics checks to jump. By spending 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action, the monk gains a +20 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump for 1 round.

The language is from the Unchained monk, who can take it as an optional ki power. Vanilla monks get it automatically at 5th level.

Okay, so a 5th level monk with 16 Dex would start with +11 Acrobatics. He takes this power, he gets +5 and his extra 10' of movement would give him another +4. (IIUC, that applies on high as well as on long jumps). So if he burns a ki point, that's +40. It's a DC 0 check for him to jump 10' into the air -- to hit a hovering flying opponent, say -- and a DC 10 check to jump 50' horizontally.

That's nice, but... can you do much with it, other than jumping over the occasional chasm? IIUC, the rules don't allow you to use the long jump to jump over opponents. 3.5 had a rule that you rose 1/4 of the long jump's distance at the midpoint, so with a 50' jump you could totally jump over a medium size foe. That's no longer the case in PF, though. So if you jump around the battlefield, you still suffer AoOs. And at 5th level, a 10' vertical jump isn't much compared to the wizard's Levitate or Fly spell. So, this power seems pleasantly flavorful, but tactically not very useful, and probably not worth spending one of your precious ki power slots.

Am I missing something? Are there any cool jumping monk builds?

Doug M.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

The somewhat misleading High Jump monk power:

Quote:
High Jump (Ex): A monk with this ki power adds his level as a bonus on all Acrobatics checks to jump, both for vertical jumps and horizontal jumps. In addition, he always counts as having a running start when attempting Acrobatics checks to jump. By spending 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action, the monk gains a +20 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump for 1 round.

The language is from the Unchained monk, who can take it as an optional ki power. Vanilla monks get it automatically at 5th level.

Okay, so a 5th level monk with 16 Dex would start with +11 Acrobatics. He takes this power, he gets +5 and his extra 10' of movement would give him another +4. (IIUC, that applies on high as well as on long jumps). So if he burns a ki point, that's +40. It's a DC 0 check for him to jump 10' into the air -- to hit a hovering flying opponent, say -- and a DC 10 check to jump 50' horizontally.

That's nice, but... can you do much with it, other than jumping over the occasional chasm? IIUC, the rules don't allow you to use the long jump to jump over opponents. 3.5 had a rule that you rose 1/4 of the long jump's distance at the midpoint, so with a 50' jump you could totally jump over a medium size foe. That's no longer the case in PF, though. So if you jump around the battlefield, you still suffer AoOs. And at 5th level, a 10' vertical jump isn't much compared to the wizard's Levitate or Fly spell. So, this power seems pleasantly flavorful, but tactically not very useful, and probably not worth spending one of your precious ki power slots.

Am I missing something? Are there any cool jumping monk builds?

Doug M.

I guess you could use this feat if you needed an attack booster.

Death from Above (Combat)
You allow gravity to add extra force to your charges.

Benefit: Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the bonuses from charging and being on higher ground.


Page 437 CRB:
Eventually a character runs out of roof, requiring a long jump across to the next roof or down to the ground. The distance to the closest roof is usually 1d3 × 5 feet horizontally, but the next roof is equally likely to be 5 feet higher, 5 feet lower, or the same height. Use the guidelines in the Acrobatics skill (a horizontal jump’s peak height is one-fourth of the horizontal distance) to determine whether a character can make a jump.


fel_horfrost wrote:


I guess you could use this feat if you needed an attack booster.

Death from Above (Combat)
You allow gravity to add extra force to your charges.

Benefit: Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the...

Be like Cid


Pink Dragon wrote:

Page 437 CRB:

Eventually a character runs out of roof, requiring a long jump across to the next roof or down to the ground. The distance to the closest roof is usually 1d3 × 5 feet horizontally, but the next roof is equally likely to be 5 feet higher, 5 feet lower, or the same height. Use the guidelines in the Acrobatics skill (a horizontal jump’s peak height is one-fourth of the horizontal distance) to determine whether a character can make a jump.

That was the 3.5 rule, all right, but that rule isn't actually in the Acrobatics skill AFAICS. Am I missing something?

-- I mean, I would totally use this rule, because it would make jumping both more realistic and more attractive. On one hand, you'd need a high ceiling to make really spectacular jumps. On the other, once you can hit a Jump DC of 40, you can jump over Medium sized opponents on the battlefield. That moves the High Jump ki power from "flavorful but useless" to "situationally good"... from red to orange, if you like. But I don't see it in the actual skill description.

Doug M.


fel_horfrost wrote:

I guess you could use this feat if you needed an attack booster.

Death from Above (Combat)
You allow gravity to add extra force to your charges.

Benefit: Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the bonuses from charging and being on higher ground.

Nice! I would totally allow this -- if you're going to burn a ki power and a feat both, then an occasional +5 seems pretty reasonable. You still have to take the charge action, so it's really only "+3 when you charge".

Doug M.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Pink Dragon wrote:

Page 437 CRB:

Eventually a character runs out of roof, requiring a long jump across to the next roof or down to the ground. The distance to the closest roof is usually 1d3 × 5 feet horizontally, but the next roof is equally likely to be 5 feet higher, 5 feet lower, or the same height. Use the guidelines in the Acrobatics skill (a horizontal jump’s peak height is one-fourth of the horizontal distance) to determine whether a character can make a jump.

That was the 3.5 rule, all right, but that rule isn't actually in the Acrobatics skill AFAICS. Am I missing something?

-- I mean, I would totally use this rule, because it would make jumping both more realistic and more attractive. On one hand, you'd need a high ceiling to make really spectacular jumps. On the other, once you can hit a Jump DC of 40, you can jump over Medium sized opponents on the battlefield. That moves the High Jump ki power from "flavorful but useless" to "situationally good"... from red to orange, if you like. But I don't see it in the actual skill description.

Doug M.

Does it need to be in the skill description? Pink Dragon's provided you with a quote and page number from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Not 3.5's PHB or DMG.


avr wrote:
in the skill description? Pink Dragon's provided you with a quote and page number from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Not 3.5's PHB or DMG.

The quote itself says "Use the guidelines in the Acrobatics skill". But there isn't a guideline in the Acrobatics skill.

This looks like an editorial error from way, way back in the beginning of PFRPG. Is it possible that, over ten years, this hasn't been FAQed?

Doug M.


Meanwhile, I note that there's the Janni Style feat Janni Rush. First the good news: when you make a jump as part of a charge, you get to roll your unarmed strike damage die twice. No multiplication of bonuses, precision damage, or crits. Still, an extra d10 or 2d6 of damage is always welcome. It's unclear from the language whether it applies only to the next attack roll or to attacks that you Flurry with.

The less good news: it's the third feat up a chain and there's a silly skill tax (Perform: Dance). -- Interestingly, the Janni Style feat chain is one where the first feat is meh but the second one is pretty okay; usually it's the other way 'round.

Doug M.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
avr wrote:
in the skill description? Pink Dragon's provided you with a quote and page number from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Not 3.5's PHB or DMG.

The quote itself says "Use the guidelines in the Acrobatics skill". But there isn't a guideline in the Acrobatics skill.

This looks like an editorial error from way, way back in the beginning of PFRPG. Is it possible that, over ten years, this hasn't been FAQed?

Doug M.

There's no FAQ as far as I know. But the statement is a crunchy one in the CRB, so it should carry rules weight. Further, it appears to me that the devs were adding to the guidelines in the Acrobatics skill when they added the statement.


Okay, so the Guide to the Unchained Monk is meh about High Jump and even more meh about Janni Style, because it's built around charging. This is unclear to me: can the Unchained not flurry on a charge? Can you charge and get an extra attack with your ki point?

Doug M.


They can't flurry on a charge short of getting pummeling charge or some form of pounce, but they can move and full attack from 5th level with the flying kick style strike.

To get an extra attack via ki an unchained monk needs to be doing a flurry of blows rather than a normal charge.


...and pummeling charge is part of the pummeling style line of style feats, so you wouldn't normally be able to use two styles at once. Right?

Doug M.


Right. Pummeling style is pretty good for a monk though, and you can switch to another style as a swift action. You can't get it before character level 9 (min 8, but monks don't get a bonus feat then).


Yeah, but to make this work you'd need to use both at once. Also, spending ki points is a swift, which makes UnMonks unusually frugal with swift actions otherwise.

Doug M.

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