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checks to feint, or Bluff checks to feint

Rules Questions

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Adventurer's Guide wrote:
Diva Style: While using this style, you can use any Perform skill in place of Bluff to feint in combat. You can attempt a Perform check to feint as a move action when you begin a bardic performance.

also applicable here is versatile performance: act, comedy, sing, or string

Rival Guide wrote:
dazzling blade: Dazzling blade makes a weapon appear dazzlingly shiny, as if crafted from pure silver and heavily polished. In combat, the flashing movements of a dazzling blade become almost hypnotic. The wielder of a weapon under the effects of dazzling blade gains a +1 competence bonus on all Bluff checks made to feint in combat. The wielder also gains a +1 competence bonus on all CMB checks made to disarm a foe, and a +1 competence bonus to his CMD against disarm attempts made against the weapon bearing the dazzling blade effect. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 caster levels, to a maximum bonus of +5 at 12th level.
Advanced Race Guide wrote:
Blistering Feint: You gain a +2 bonus on feint checks made while wielding a weapon that deals fire damage. Anytime you successfully feint a creature while using such a weapon, you may deal its fire damage to the enemy.
Ultimate Combat wrote:
Distracting: You gain a +2 bonus on Bluff skill checks to feint in combat while wielding this weapon.

An ifrit rogue with Blistering Feint and a flaming fighting fan gets +4 on their Bluff check to feint.

An ifrit bard with Diva Style, Blistering Feint, and a flaming fighting fan gets +2 on their Perform check to feint.

A wayang with Diva Style and a fighting fan enchanted with dazzling blade gets...bupkiss on their Perform check to feint. However, they would get a nice bonus to disarm checks, especially when disarming a foe affected by Diva Advance.


Mmm, I guess the real question is: should Blistering Feint apply only to Bluff checks? Or should all bonuses to 'feint checks' apply to whichever skill is used to feint?

ohako wrote:
Mmm, I guess the real question is: should Blistering Feint apply only to Bluff checks? Or should all bonuses to 'feint checks' apply to whichever skill is used to feint?

The latter, since it doesn't specify Bluff.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Perhaps I stated my question poorly.

Many options improve your Bluff check when feinting (a distracting weapon, the spell dazzling blade, etc.) Only Blistering Feint seems to let you stack a bonus onto a Perform check.

I know that a rogue with a fighting fan doped with dazzling blade gets a big bonus to their attempt to feint, and I know that a bard with the same setup using Perform (sing) to feint gets nothing (because of the way skill substitution works).

This is a tricky question for the Rules forum, but: should it be this way?

Should Blistering Feint receive errata so that it only applies to Bluff checks?


Should bonuses to feint checks work no matter which skill you're using them with?

IMO? Getting a feat to use perform instead of bluff to feint with should be a bonus rather than a trap. It would be fairer if a fighting fan gave its +2 to feint when using diva style; also more thematic.

That isn't currently the case due to the exact wording as you note.

Scarab Sages

I think the intent is anything that affects bluff "for feinting" would apply to the perform check. Diva Style is new so all the old material can't be retroactively updated, and Paizo doesn't update the PRD until they publish errata. But the exact wording says it only affects bluff so ... you might expect table variation. If a GM is particularly stringent we could hit FAQ to be sure.

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