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Is there a feat that reduces the two weapon penalties for fighting with two weapons?


Advice

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Such a feat might help the brawler class.


Could you elaborate?


advanced weapon training -> Effortless Dual-Wielding, lighten weapon could work too(tho its a 3rd party feat)there's also a weapon property that reduces the penalty by 1 but both weapons need to have it


What do you mean exactly?

Of course there's a feat that reduces the penalties for fighting with two weapons, it's called two weapon fighting. Two Weapon Fighting feat doesn't grant additional attacks, it reduces the penalties for doing so.

But brawlers aren't fighting with two weapons. At least not if you know what you're doing. You fight with one weapon, and get a sort of psuedo-two weapon fighting thing going on. It's basically monk's flurry, with better different rules in an attempt to clarify how it works. And in any event, the brawler already gains the effective benefit of TWF feat.

Otherwise, anything that helps attack rolls will generally help.

And besides all that, it's only a -2 penalty to use Brawler's FLurry, granting you extra attacks. It's not a huge problem really, as brawler's are full BAB. They don't need that much help hitting things.

Shadow Lodge

Talonhawke wrote:
Could you elaborate?

I’m looking to reduce The penalties for fighting with two different weapons. Preferably to a minus one as opposed to a -2 at minimal.


Most TWF feats reduce the penalties down to as-if you were wielding light weapons, even third party stuff. You are already applying the penalties of TWF as-if it was a light weapon, and you can make all attacks at 1.5x str while two-handing a weapon.

The only thing I can recommend is Shield Master which involves you using a shield. Not the greatest weapon, but luckily it is in the close weapon group and a Brawler can increase the damage on it.

Scarab Sages

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Weapon Focus. Greater Weapon Focus. Dedicated Adversary (via Martial Flexibility). I don’t think there’s anything to specifically remove the TWF penalty. (Except the Shield Master feat that was mentioned). Just ways to boost accuracy in general.

Note: Brawler doesn’t get 1.5x STR in a flurry. That’s just Unchained Monk. Brawler gets 1x STR for all Flurry attacks like a regular monk.


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ShadowDax wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:
Could you elaborate?
I’m looking to reduce The penalties for fighting with two different weapons. Preferably to a minus one as opposed to a -2 at minimal.

Indeed, there is! How do you feel about getting a co-pilot?

Edit: People should really check out the Possessed Hand feat chain. It’s a very cool chain that does some unusual stuff.


The Possessed Hand chain is pretty cool, but unfortunately not PFS legal.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Once you have your 2-weapon fighting penalties down to a minimum, the next step should be to gain bonuses to the attacks. Weapon Focus and Possessed Hand have the disadvantage that they will only give you bonuses for one of your attacks (assuming that you are using two different weapons for your attacks in the Weapon Focus case -- Weapon Focus would work just fine if you are wielding two of the same light weapon).


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:

Once you have your 2-weapon fighting penalties down to a minimum, the next step should be to gain bonuses to the attacks. Weapon Focus and Possessed Hand have the disadvantage that they will only give you bonuses for one of your attacks (assuming that you are using two different weapons for your attacks in the Weapon Focus case -- Weapon Focus would work just fine if you are wielding two of the same light weapon).

Possessed Hand chains into Hand’s Autonomy to reduce penalties down to -1, and you get some nice minor perks along the way.


QuidEst wrote:
Possessed Hand chains into Hand’s Autonomy to reduce penalties down to -1, and you get some nice minor perks along the way.

Or alternatively, take the penalties for fighting with two one-handed weapons from -4 to -2. Dual wielding katana or bastard swords is back on the table.

Shadow Lodge

This is for a PFS character. I have a brawler that does not have much to hit with after all the negatives of power attack and brawlers flurry. Beyond weapon focus - improved unarmed strike, A cracked pale green prism and the amulet of mighty fists +1.I’m trying to research a way to improve the chances of hitting with brawlers Flurry.


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There is the Magus Spell Blade Tutor

Scarab Sages

Blade Tutor's Spirit isn't PFS-legal, either, unfortunately.

ShadowDax - What do you use Martial Flexibility for? One of the best fallback options is Dedicated Adversary (assuming someone in the group can at least identify the creature type of what you're fighting). It effectively becomes a version of Slayer's Studied Target, where you spend a Move action to get a +2 to-hit and damage against a creature type. For PFS, you have to pick an ethnicity if the creature is Human, and a subtype for Humanoid and Outsider. But it's a good boost to-hit and damage when you don't need Martial Flexibility for anything else.


Ferious Thune wrote:

Blade Tutor's Spirit isn't PFS-legal, either, unfortunately.

ShadowDax - What do you use Martial Flexibility for? One of the best fallback options is Dedicated Adversary (assuming someone in the group can at least identify the creature type of what you're fighting). It effectively becomes a version of Slayer's Studied Target, where you spend a Move action to get a +2 to-hit and damage against a creature type. For PFS, you have to pick an ethnicity if the creature is Human, and a subtype for Humanoid and Outsider. But it's a good boost to-hit and damage when you don't need Martial Flexibility for anything else.

Aw, shucks.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Worship Achaekek, fight with two sawtooth sabres and be high enough level.

His high-level sentinel boon eliminates the penalties for doing so. You can find it in Inner Sea Faiths.


Welcome to brawlers, one of the least accurate full bab classes. Their "plan" is that they are throwing more attacks to get some to land.

Dedicated Adversary as mentioned is your best thing at +2 to hit against the target. The other thing to be looking for is maybe trying to trip people and be sure to flank.

Another idea would be to dip into a rage class for rage, it's a +2 to accuracy and with 1 extra rage feat you'll likely have enough rage rounds for every day in PFS, and the fastest way to boost accuracy consistantly.


Yeah. Brawlers just aren't very accurate, and there's not a lot you can do about it. Unless you are flurrying with a weapon held in two hands, power attack probably isn't worth the accuracy loss with them.


You're a brawler:

1) You don't need two weapons, you seem to possibly be aware of this but a lot of people are talking about using two weapons...which is terrible since you can flurry with one and it's a lot of extra cost.
2) Are you terribly attached to unarmed strikes? Making unarmed combat work is hard. You're much better off using Sansetsukon. It's two handed, so you get better power attack scaling, the damage is a d10, which is better than you start with for unarmed (and by the time your unarmed strike would be higher other things factor in more heavily), and is easier and less expensive to enchant.
3) Ultimately you need to worry less about reducing the penalty from brawler's flurry (which is only a -2) and focus on just generally increasing your attack bonus.

Shadow Lodge

Ferious Thune wrote:

Blade Tutor's Spirit isn't PFS-legal, either, unfortunately.

ShadowDax - What do you use Martial Flexibility for? One of the best fallback options is Dedicated Adversary (assuming someone in the group can at least identify the creature type of what you're fighting). It effectively becomes a version of Slayer's Studied Target, where you spend a Move action to get a +2 to-hit and damage against a creature type. For PFS, you have to pick an ethnicity if the creature is Human, and a subtype for Humanoid and Outsider. But it's a good boost to-hit and damage when you don't need Martial Flexibility for anything else.

I use Marshall flexibility with the trip feats or the hamatula strike feat, I’m 7th level. Thanks for tell me about the dedicated adversary feat. I’ll consider this in the build.

Shadow Lodge

Claxon wrote:

You're a brawler:

1) You don't need two weapons, you seem to possibly be aware of this but a lot of people are talking about using two weapons...which is terrible since you can flurry with one and it's a lot of extra cost.
2) Are you terribly attached to unarmed strikes? Making unarmed combat work is hard. You're much better off using Sansetsukon. It's two handed, so you get better power attack scaling, the damage is a d10, which is better than you start with for unarmed (and by the time your unarmed strike would be higher other things factor in more heavily), and is easier and less expensive to enchant.
3) Ultimately you need to worry less about reducing the penalty from brawler's flurry (which is only a -2) and focus on just generally increasing your attack bonus.

As for your point in #2, I thought power attack was the same the no matter what I use when I use brawlers flurry. It makes a sansetsukon attractive for both damage and to hit. Thanks for the heads up.


No problem :) Yeah, you can definitely two hand a weapon for the +3 damage -1 attack while power attacking during a brawler's flurry. You always only get + str to damage instead of 1.5 strength, but you get extra attacks to make up for that (theoretically). Anyways, a lto of people get confused about power attack during a flurry because they think that getting locked into 1x strength affects power attack, but it doesn't.

Scarab Sages

Just a note, in case of misunderstanding (on your part or mine): Dedicated Adversary is only really useful through Martial Flexibility, because you can choose who it affects each time you pick it up that way. If you take the actual feat, then you make the choice once and it's set. So the suggestion is to get it through Martial Flexibility whenever you don't have something better to get. Not to take it as a locked in feat.

You probably understood that. The "I'll consider this in the build" made me unsure.

With regards to using a weapon 2-handed, note that heavy shields are a one-handed weapon. It's probably late in the build to aim for that, but it's a way to not sacrifice AC and still do 2-handed power attack damage. They're in the close group, so you eventually get Brawler damage dice. There are a lot of feats you'd want, though.


Claxon wrote:
Anyways, a lot of people get confused about power attack during a flurry because they think that getting locked into 1x strength affects power attack, but it doesn't.

True, but it's also the kind of thing that could easily get FAQed or errata down the line, so just be prepared for that to be possible.


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I mean, they could it's true. They could nerf anything at anytime.

As far as I know, there hasn't been any discussion of Flurry and Power Attacking with a 2-handed weapon being too strong (or monks or any flurry based class) so I see it as relatively unlikely. Unless you have knowledge otherwise.


The Shield Master feat will eliminate the twf penalties for any shields you bash with.

Shadow Lodge

Ferious Thune wrote:

Just a note, in case of misunderstanding (on your part or mine): Dedicated Adversary is only really useful through Martial Flexibility, because you can choose who it affects each time you pick it up that way. If you take the actual feat, then you make the choice once and it's set. So the suggestion is to get it through Martial Flexibility whenever you don't have something better to get. Not to take it as a locked in feat.

You probably understood that. The "I'll consider this in the build" made me unsure.

With regards to using a weapon 2-handed, note that heavy shields are a one-handed weapon. It's probably late in the build to aim for that, but it's a way to not sacrifice AC and still do 2-handed power attack damage. They're in the close group, so you eventually get Brawler damage dice. There are a lot of feats you'd want, though.

To consider this in the build I meant to use it through Marshall flexibility, and if I use it lots of times I will put it in the build at a high-level. That’s if I really enjoy the feat. This is a PFS character and I do own the toolbox book that it is in. Thanks for the suggestion . I appreciate everybodys thoughts on this thread.

Shadow Lodge

In rereading it, I see the advantage of having it only for Marshall flexibility instead of the build. Talking about dedicated adversary that is. I see what you’re saying Ferious Thune. Been a while Spence I read it. Oops

Scarab Sages

Yeah. It’s similar to the difference between Inquisitor’s Bane ability and purchasing a Bane weapon. The Inquisitor can change her Bane for every opponent. Buying the weapon you’re limited to one. Taking the feat limits it to a single type of creature. Martial Flexibility lets you change it as needed, which makes it much better.

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