Bard 5th level spells Rise of the Runelords


Advice


I'm playing an Arcane Duelist. 13th level about to hit 14th.
I know there are a HUGE number of threads about Bard spells but they are mostly 3 to 4 years old. I am looking to see if there are any new spells out there.

I have read a couple of guides that suggest best spells.

Currently my character has Deafening Song Bolt and Shadow Bard for the 5th level spells.

Cloak of Dreams has been suggested, but we are dealing with Giants and reach is an issue. Though I have no trouble getting in their square, the 1round casting time is an issue to me.

I have Considered Greater Bladed Dash, though I haven't used it's cousin much.

There is Bardic Escape but our party is big (numerically and physically) so I can't get the whole group at once.

Greater Dispel Magic seems like a good idea.

I have Heroism but never used it. So the greater version might not be a good idea.

Ideas?


I'm going to throw in a vote for greater dispel magic, you never know when you'll really need to get rid of some magical effect.


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cacophonous mass would be my choice.


Oh yes I would agree cacophonous mass. It's a 30 foot spread that takes away actions.

Bladed dash greater is amazing for your archtype as well. You're a melee class. Get in there.

Cloak of dreams is also fun for a melee type. They are beside you. So.. good night. Look, if you're blade dashing you're inside their reach. So cloak, dash and they fall asleep.

Frozen note is fun.. But concentration. Not so good for a melee type.

Greater heroism is wonderful for immunity to fear alone. But the rest is incredible to bring you close to full melee class stats.

But finally, one that may not benefit YOU so much but the group. MIND FOG. Holy crap -10 to will for your wizard to wreck holy hell on his Turn? You all win.

That's my suggestions for your archtype.


I want to say again that this is Rise of the Rune Lords. We are near the end. The monster of Choice are dragons and anything that is a spellcaster that is really big. In other words, they have reach.
Cloak of dreams doesn't seem like a good bet for my situation.

One reason I don't use Heroism is that I can only use it on one person. With my build, I have a +5 Inspire courage which is a +5 against Fear affects too. I suppose I could just cast it on myself and be a better combat character. I am not bad in that field. Heroism has gone unused because I can't pick someone for the spell.

And just to be difficult, I have stayed away from Save or Suck spells. In Rune Lords it has turned out to be a good idea because we have too many Giants with way too high Will saves. If this was any other game, I would take the SoS spells, because I would stand a ghost of a chance of having them work. A DC 19 isn't so bad.

Thus I can't say Cacophonous Call is good for Me.

How would Frozen Note be fun if it affects your party as well as the enemy. That reminds me of the Skald's rage that ruined a wizards ability to cast. It's not likely that I'm going to be using it.

Greater Bladed Dash had been on my list. I have used Bladed Dash before, but not often. But as I said before, Giants. If the game was using smaller foes like Drow from our last game, I could see it being useful.

We have brought up the Utility spell a few times. We have a couple of wizards in the party and and no one seems to have dispel prepared.


I find if you're doing blade dash you're going to be inside their reach by your choice. So cloak of dreams may not be as bad as you think.

However if saves are an issue, and you're fighting larger creatures, maybe try Stunning Finale.

Save or be stunned for 1 round, up to 3 targets, or staggered on a save. That's pretty win win. Ends your song, but... Swift to start songs back up.

Also mind for, once again. Huge dispersal, doesn't stop vision and a -10 to your wizards will save spells.

No matter what your save bonus is, -10 to saves on Will is massove.


Well, Stunning Finale Sounds good, but giants get a huge Fortitude Save. We are facing Stone Giants at the least and they get a +12 to that.

I'm sorry for raining on the parade so to speak. I have looked at the Guides to good spells but wasn't satisfied.

Personally I never like the 'Finale spells. I have the Inspire Courage up all the time. Also my character has Arcane strike which which is the only useful bonus feats the archetype has (IMHO). So it uses up the swift action. It's a lame excuse, but I can see it as more useful than a Finale spell.

As far as the Huge Dispersal thing, I've never heard of it. (page/book #) I don't play spell casters all the time. I can't find Dispersal for affecting spells. Besides, this is a 5 foot radius so I don't see how this could be relevant.


I meant mind fo"G" has a huge dispersal area. Sorry man. It's pretty huge.

I think if you're fighting 3 or more guys (Or dragons let's say with multiple attacks) stunning finale still wins for the stagger even on success part. That means single attacks, which is horrid for end game creatures with high bab or many natural attacks.

Silver Crusade

Bard's Escape is how you avoid AoO's against your allies — just teleport them into flanking positions so they can make full attacks.

Greater Dispel Magic is good.

Grand Lodge

ngc7293 wrote:

Well, Stunning Finale Sounds good, but giants get a huge Fortitude Save. We are facing Stone Giants at the least and they get a +12 to that.

I'm sorry for raining on the parade so to speak. I have looked at the Guides to good spells but wasn't satisfied.

Personally I never like the 'Finale spells. I have the Inspire Courage up all the time. Also my character has Arcane strike which which is the only useful bonus feats the archetype has (IMHO). So it uses up the swift action. It's a lame excuse, but I can see it as more useful than a Finale spell.

As far as the Huge Dispersal thing, I've never heard of it. (page/book #) I don't play spell casters all the time. I can't find Dispersal for affecting spells. Besides, this is a 5 foot radius so I don't see how this could be relevant.

Lingering performance prevents your song from going down after using a finale spell. Preventing a PC from getting taken out of the fight or turned on you is as good as killing someone for balance. Think of it this way, if your ally goes down you lose one character's worth of actions for the whole fight. If you take someone out you shift the actions equally - one characters worth - that is so much more potent than 2 damage per hit from arcane strike.

1) Identify the spell being cast. Is it bad?
2) See if the save is passed
3) Save the day with an immediate action

That said if you don't enjoy it then you should not take it. I would also advise using heroism more for yourself and others. Most of the spells you have mentioned are good and the other recommendations have been solid. Mislead can allow you to burn an enemies Aoo and give you greater invisibility. Mass Suggestion is very useful. Shadow evocation is a grab bag of spells.


1. I think I am good on the Stunning Finale. Though I use Lingering performance all the time, I keep forgetting about its main affect for other spells.

2. About Mind Fog. I wonder if there is a misunderstanding on how it works. We had that spell used on our group by a certain succubus in the game.

It seems that it is being implied that the spell applies a -10 to the Will save of Mind Fog But when I read the spell, it looks like there is a standard Will save (and SR) and the final effect is -10 penalty on Wisdom based checks and Will saves.

Our GM gave us standard saves. If it was a -10 on the will save at the start, none of us would have made it.

However, it is a good prep for other SOS spells if you can make it work.

Likely what I will do is take Greater Heroism or the Greater Dispel Magic now.

Now I have some good ideas for my other 5th level spells.


Ah. No. Standard save then -10 for all following. Massive area. But you fail and it's basically saying a wisdom 22 dwarf would have a wisdom of 2 for the purposes of resisting some of the worst spells in the game.

It's a set up for your buddies.


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3rd Level Good Hope. Heroism for the entire party well worth casting. Particularly as Inspire Courage gives a Competence Bonus which stacks nicely with the morale bonus from Heroism , Good Hope or Greater Heroism.

I would take Greater Heroism, although with its duration of Minutes per level instead of 10 minutes per level you have to cast it near the encounter rather than with Heroism where you cast it on all melee or ranged combatants at the start of the adventuring day.

Will saves are normally the weakest of Giants so Will save spells are a good choice but if your save is only DC19 for level 5 spells you are not that good at casting them and so you are probably better with self Buffs(I would expect save DC of at least 22 )


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Just a note, if you immediate action "Finale", you would have to use a move action the next turn to start song - your swift has been used.

Greater Dispel Magic is my recommendation. That or Mislead. Also, don't forget that 14th is a spell trade-out level.

Silver Crusade

A lesser metamagic rod of extend is very helpful to make Good Hope last 2 min/lvl. At 7th lvl I find myself forgoing Haste to give the entire party a total of 28 min of +2 to hit, damage, skills and saves. That can be enough to clear a small dungeon.

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