Wolf Style unbalanced?


Rules Questions


So I'm readying this new style feat and the concept is neat but I don't think you can do 60 damage in a single hit during an attack of opportunity with a natural weapon or unarmed strike to actually get someone with a base 30 speed to 0 and then trip them. Maybe if you crit or if you used a manufactured weapon with good stat and enchantments. Is the damage requirement too high to anyone else? Am I just missing something? Maybe this is something that will get errata'd, maybe I'm just not being inventive enough. Little help please.


Probably meant to be comboed with this. Do note that while Scorpion Style has style in the name it's not actually a style feat (so you can use both) and it specifies that it changes their base land speed (versus just imposing a penalty).


Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Probably meant to be comboed with this. Do note that while Scorpion Style has style in the name it's not actually a style feat (so you can use both) and it specifies that it changes their base land speed (versus just imposing a penalty).

Hmm yeah that's a pretty good option.


Also if you get more than 1 attack of opportunity off then you only need to do 30 damage a hit or 20 damage a hit. Or if more than 1 person have it, like if you and a pet then that's 30 each. If you get more involved it's likely that one of you will get the trigger off.


Note that the reduction lasts until the end of your victim's next turn, so you basically have two turns' worth of AoOs to bring them down to 0' with.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Also if you get more than 1 attack of opportunity off then you only need to do 30 damage a hit or 20 damage a hit. Or if more than 1 person have it, like if you and a pet then that's 30 each. If you get more involved it's likely that one of you will get the trigger off.

Yeah but you only get 1 attack of opportunity against a single target buy using a teammate or animal companion is a good idea.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Note that the reduction lasts until the end of your victim's next turn, so you basically have two turns' worth of AoOs to bring them down to 0' with.

You know I don't think I thought that part fully through. I wasn't processing turn order correctly in my head. Thanks for pointing that out.


also note there is a feat that lets you use unarmed strike feats(feats that normally only function with unarmed strike) with manufactured weapons meaning you can run this feat with a large butchering axe with a decent str score and power attack and get high numbers pretty easily


Lady-J wrote:
also note there is a feat that lets you use unarmed strike feats(feats that normally only function with unarmed strike) with manufactured weapons meaning you can run this feat with a large butchering axe with a decent str score and power attack and get high numbers pretty easily

There is? What book is that in?


Rurik Silvermane wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
also note there is a feat that lets you use unarmed strike feats(feats that normally only function with unarmed strike) with manufactured weapons meaning you can run this feat with a large butchering axe with a decent str score and power attack and get high numbers pretty easily
There is? What book is that in?

Probably referring to Ascetic Style, from the Weaponmaster's Handbook.

Though you'll also need the Versatile Design weapon modification from Adventurer's Armory 2 if your chosen weapon isn't already in the Monk category.


LeMoineNoir wrote:
Rurik Silvermane wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
also note there is a feat that lets you use unarmed strike feats(feats that normally only function with unarmed strike) with manufactured weapons meaning you can run this feat with a large butchering axe with a decent str score and power attack and get high numbers pretty easily
There is? What book is that in?

Probably referring to Ascetic Style, from the Weaponmaster's Handbook.

Though you'll also need the Versatile Design weapon modification from Adventurer's Armory 2 if your chosen weapon isn't already in the Monk category.

Thanks.


Rurik Silvermane wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
also note there is a feat that lets you use unarmed strike feats(feats that normally only function with unarmed strike) with manufactured weapons meaning you can run this feat with a large butchering axe with a decent str score and power attack and get high numbers pretty easily
There is? What book is that in?

weapon style mastery is one of them lets you pick 2 style feats you can use with your fighter weapon group, feral combat training nets you all things with improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite for all natural weapons there are a few others but i cant remember their names but they were the reason why pummeling style only works with unarmed strikes no matter what abilities you get to be able to use with another weapon


Besides, it isn't actually that difficult to do 60 points of damage.

7th level rogue, enlarge lead blades Tsetsubo with +1 vicous merciful weapon and sapmaster/sap mastery and accomplished sneak attack. Presume sneak and strength of 16.

3d8 +10+ 10d6 + 4 +3d6 = 74 points of damage.
No dex to dmg, trait bonus


Is there any reason why they would need a feat to use a weapon with this? It requires IUAS to select, but says nothing about unarmed strikes otherwise.

A Fortuitous weapon would also help a lot. Turn that one AoO into two.


toastedamphibian wrote:

Is there any reason why they would need a feat to use a weapon with this? It requires IUAS to select, but says nothing about unarmed strikes otherwise.

A Fortuitous weapon would also help a lot. Turn that one AoO into two.

You can use a weapon with it just fine without another feat. Wolf Style isn't limited to just natural weapons/unarmed strikes. The final feat in the form, Wolf Savage, does have such a limitation, however.

Though d20PFSRD attributes the feat to Ultimate Wilderness, while the Archive of Nethys attributes it to Blood of the Moon, so it may have changed in Ultimate Wilderness (but if so, d20PFSRD didn't update it).

Edit: Nope, still the same. It can be done with any weapon.


toastedamphibian wrote:

Is there any reason why they would need a feat to use a weapon with this? It requires IUAS to select, but says nothing about unarmed strikes otherwise.

A Fortuitous weapon would also help a lot. Turn that one AoO into two.

because your going to want to use it in conjunction with the last feat in the chain which specifics unarmed strikes or natural weapons


Lady-J wrote:
Rurik Silvermane wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
also note there is a feat that lets you use unarmed strike feats(feats that normally only function with unarmed strike) with manufactured weapons meaning you can run this feat with a large butchering axe with a decent str score and power attack and get high numbers pretty easily
There is? What book is that in?
weapon style mastery is one of them lets you pick 2 style feats you can use with your fighter weapon group, feral combat training nets you all things with improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite for all natural weapons there are a few others but i cant remember their names but they were the reason why pummeling style only works with unarmed strikes no matter what abilities you get to be able to use with another weapon

There is also a Human Fighter Feat, Martial Versatility, that lets all Feats that only apply to one of your weapons also apply to every weapon in your chosen weapon's weapon group. I don't know how you might use that to make Ascetic Style apply to the Butchering axe, but you can use it to apply stuff to other stuff. For instance, you could apply Ascetic Style to your Temple Sword, which is both a Monk Weapon and a Heavy Blade then take Martial Versatility to make Ascetic Style also apply to your Greatsword, which is also a Heavy Blade.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
For instance, you could apply Ascetic Style to your Temple Sword, which is both a Monk Weapon and a Heavy Blade then take Martial Versatility to make Ascetic Style also apply to your Greatsword, which is also a Heavy Blade.

Or unarmed strikes, which makes it apply to: All natural weapons, bayonet, brass knuckles, cestus, Club, dagger, dan bong, dwarven war-shield, emei piercer, fighting fan, gauntlet, greatclub, handaxe, heavy shield, iron brush, katar, klar, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, rope gauntlet, sap, scizore, shortspear, spear, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi, throwing axe, tonfa, tri-bladed katar, wooden stake, waveblade, and wushu dart, in addition to all monk group weapons.

Not sure why you would necessarily want to, but if you just want to use all the things...

Edit: Hmmm, must be a use for applying Unarmed feats to a greatclub, right?


Perfect Tommy wrote:

Besides, it isn't actually that difficult to do 60 points of damage.

7th level rogue, enlarge lead blades Tsetsubo with +1 vicous merciful weapon and sapmaster/sap mastery and accomplished sneak attack. Presume sneak and strength of 16.

3d8 +10+ 10d6 + 4 +3d6 = 74 points of damage.
No dex to dmg, trait bonus

Are you multiclassing? why accomplished sneak attack?

Also, maybe is just me, but there's so much stuff going on there to consider it a "common" ocurrence.

As for the feat, imo, is not something you'll use frecuently unless you build your character entirely about it and even if you do you need several buffs from party members. Imp Trip will perform similar with less optimization leaving your friend's spells open for other situations.


It works nicely with reach weapons. By the time they've approached you, they've hopefully expended most of their movement. Then you can either trip them with the AoO, or hopefully at least eat enough movement that the final 5 feet of approach costs them a second move action so they can't attack.

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