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Rules about crafting magical weapons without required spells


Rules Questions


I'm thinking of taking craft wondrous items feat as a alchemist, but the alchemist has a fairly limited access to required spells. If I'm understanding the rules correctly I can craft items without the required spell for a +5 increase to dc, but I wanted to know since we have a few sorcerers on the team can they help by providing the spell even if they don't also have the craft wondrous items feat?


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nop277 wrote:
I'm thinking of taking craft wondrous items feat as a alchemist, but the alchemist has a fairly limited access to required spells. If I'm understanding the rules correctly I can craft items without the required spell for a +5 increase to dc, but I wanted to know since we have a few sorcerers on the team can they help by providing the spell even if they don't also have the craft wondrous items feat?

You can skip the spell requirement for any magic item except spell-completion items, spell-trigger items, or potions. So scrolls, wands, staves, and potions.

You can meet the spell requirement by using a magic item with the spell, or another spellcaster. The other spellcaster does not require the relevant item creation feat. Just remember that you must provide all the spells everyday you work on the item, so the sorcerer must be there every day you work and must spend the appropriate spell slot each of those days.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Yes, as long as the item is not a potion, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic item you can ignore the necessary spell by increasing the DC by +5.

Magic Item Creation

Magic Item Creation:

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

I can't find the entry at the moment, but yes you do not have to be the caster of the spell yourself. A buddy can cast it for you when you make your Spellcraft check to meet the requirement.


I have seen the idea that alchemists are not spellcasters, steictly speaking, and there for cannot take feats with a caster level pq. You might want to check which side of that your GM is on.

Paizo Employee Customer Service Manager

Merged double post.


Java Man wrote:
I have seen the idea that alchemists are not spellcasters, steictly speaking, and there for cannot take feats with a caster level pq. You might want to check which side of that your GM is on.

A bit late to the party, but there is a FAQ that explicitly states that Alchemists aren't spellcasters and cant take magic item crafting feats. Its not really just an idea.

Alchemist: Is an alchemist a spellcaster for the purpose of crafting magic items other than potions?
As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item.
The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.


Gonna have to go with Master Craftsman, then.


Alternatively the toilcrafter trait allows you to qualify for Craft magic arms and armors with your craft skill.

You gotta worship thorag though.

A dwarf alchemist Smith is a cool concept IMHO.


Calth wrote:
Java Man wrote:
I have seen the idea that alchemists are not spellcasters, steictly speaking, and there for cannot take feats with a caster level pq. You might want to check which side of that your GM is on.

A bit late to the party, but there is a FAQ that explicitly states that Alchemists aren't spellcasters and cant take magic item crafting feats. Its not really just an idea.

Alchemist: Is an alchemist a spellcaster for the purpose of crafting magic items other than potions?
As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item.
The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.

An Alchemist who selects the Spell Knowledge Discovery is a spellcaster and has a caster level. This allows them to take feats like Craft Wondrous Items or Arcane Strike.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
Calth wrote:
Java Man wrote:
I have seen the idea that alchemists are not spellcasters, steictly speaking, and there for cannot take feats with a caster level pq. You might want to check which side of that your GM is on.

A bit late to the party, but there is a FAQ that explicitly states that Alchemists aren't spellcasters and cant take magic item crafting feats. Its not really just an idea.

Alchemist: Is an alchemist a spellcaster for the purpose of crafting magic items other than potions?
As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item.
The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.

An Alchemist who selects the Spell Knowledge Discovery is a spellcaster and has a caster level. This allows them to take feats like Craft Wondrous Items or Arcane Strike.

I doubt it work. He get a single spell for which he has a spellcaster level, but that don't give him a spellcaster level. There was a discussion about that some time ago, with a dev post saying that, but I don't recall if it generated a FAQ.

On a separate note, an alchemist as a special exemption for potions, as he can make them using his extract slots.

Master craftsman is nice, but too limited unless you are making only weapon or only armors. With it you can make only items that can be crafted with the specific skill you choose. Whem making miscellaneous items you can make only a few.


You actually cast the spell, and the wording makes it clear that you get a caster level. It isn't an SLA for which you only have an equivalent caster level.

This is probably the developer comment you were thinking of.

It gives you a caster level and counts as a spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites. I'm not sure it's a *good* path to any PrCs (you're going to get a spell of any given level much later than true casting class), but I'd certainly assume you are considered a spellcaster.

That's good enough for me.


Yep, looks like a winner.

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