Natural Attacker - Gauntlets of Rending VS Deliquescent Gloves?

[Kiesman]

What do you think is the better purchase between these two for a natural attacker using claws (Bloodrager)?

Gauntlets of Rending

Deliquescent Gloves

The character will likely not be doing much dex-based hand-requiring actions. The gauntlets have a nice steady damage increase, the gloves allow a much higher potential.

P.S. this is a PFS character

[Claxon]

The real answer is finding something that will add extra natural attacks for you.

I don't know the names off-hand but I know ways exist to get as many as 5 natural attacks at low levels, but it involves specific race selections, which are probably not available in PFS.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

1d6 = 3.5 average > 2
so the gloves significantly beat the gauntlets. More so if you might face oozes.

[Claxon]

Alternatively, anything with even basic acid resistance will pretty much completely shut down the gloves.

[blahpers]

Outside PFS? Have a GM that allows multiple functions for 1.5x cost on the more expensive one? Por que no los dos?

No luck? Depends on whether you're fighting a lot of acid-resistant badguys, as Claxon stated.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Claxon wrote:

The real answer is finding something that will add extra natural attacks for you.

I don't know the names off-hand but I know ways exist to get as many as 5 natural attacks at low levels, but it involves specific race selections, which are probably not available in PFS.

Tengu: Bite Attack, PFS legal last I checked.

Althernative Racial Trait, Claws
Helm of the Mammoth Lord: Gore Attack
Animal Mask: Gore Attack, (or Bite, but you already have a Bite.)
Take a level in White Haired Witch, and you have a Hair Attack
Alchemist Discovery, Tentacle: Doesn't grant extra attacks: you'd use your regular weapon attack slots for that, but you weren't using that attack slots anyway because combining manufactured weapon attacks with Natural Weapon Attacks imposes severe penalties on your Natural Weapons. But since the Tentacle is a Natural Weapon, it won't.

So that's 6 Attacks/round.

The Fleshwarped Whip which you can graft to yourself and get a Tail Attack, but I'm not sure it's PFS Legal.

There are Barbarian Rage Powers that give you Claws, Bites, and Gores, but you can't get all 4 with just BRPs.

The Alchemist Discovery Feral Mutagen gives you 2 Claws and a Bite.

Druid Wildshape, of course: Claws, Bite, Tentacles, Talons, Slams...

[Kiesman]

I'm a Crossblooded Rager archetype with Abyssal (2 claws) and Salamander (Tail slap). I also have one level of Elemental Ascetic Kineticist, granting +1d6 physical damage of my chosen damage type to every natural attack. Eventually I'll get a Helm of the Mammoth Lord or something too.

[Atalius]

Do you include strength bonus and power attack (if he has it) to the helm of the Mammoth Lord?

[quibblemuch]

The description says the Gauntlets of Rending are Large. And since they're weapons, they don't resize, right? Doesn't that mean you can't use them as a Medium/Small creature?

[Grumbaki]

Annis Hag Changeling (1d4 claws) +1 damage melee
Draconic Primalist Rageshaper Bloodrager (+1 damage die for claws and gore when raging)
Lvl 1 Feat-Mother’s Gift (+1 Hit and Damage claws)
Lvl 3 Feat-Mothers Gift (+1 natural AC, now is+2)
Lvl 5 Feat-Mothers Gift (spell Resistance)
Lvl 7 Feat-Power Attack

Lvl4: Lesser Fiend Totem (gore attack) Lesser Elemental Rage

Lvls 5-8: Go dragon disciple for +2 str and bite attack

Wear rending claws

Assuming Str22 rage and +1 amulet of mighty blows

Claws Hit: +13/+13
Damage: 2d6+16

Gore Hit: +12
Damage: 2d8+13

Bite Hit: +12
Damage: 1d6+13

Once per rage swift action for +1d6 elemental damage of choice to all attacks

That’s 4 primary natural attacks, 3 hitting harder than greatswords

Rending Claws helps cut through DR better

[Kiesman]

quibblemuch wrote:

The description says the Gauntlets of Rending are Large. And since they're weapons, they don't resize, right? Doesn't that mean you can't use them as a Medium/Small creature?

You know, I missed that entirely. I guess I'd be using the gloves then.

[graystone]

Kiesman wrote:

quibblemuch wrote:

The description says the Gauntlets of Rending are Large. And since they're weapons, they don't resize, right? Doesn't that mean you can't use them as a Medium/Small creature?

You know, I missed that entirely. I guess I'd be using the gloves then.

Medium can use large weapons at a -2. Add to that you AREN'T using them to attack with and there isn't an issue. And lastly, there is a rumoured FAQ coming that gauntlets aren't actually weapons so they MAY end up changing size.

[quibblemuch]

graystone wrote:

Kiesman wrote:

quibblemuch wrote:

The description says the Gauntlets of Rending are Large. And since they're weapons, they don't resize, right? Doesn't that mean you can't use them as a Medium/Small creature?

You know, I missed that entirely. I guess I'd be using the gloves then.

Medium can use large weapons at a -2. Add to that you AREN'T using them to attack with and there isn't an issue. And lastly, there is a rumoured FAQ coming that gauntlets aren't actually weapons so they MAY end up changing size.

Except that the weapons up-level in handedness. A Large longsword is a two-handed weapon. So a Large set of gauntlets would be... you could shove both hands into one?

I'm unclear on the consequences.

[Kiesman]

graystone wrote:

Kiesman wrote:

quibblemuch wrote:

The description says the Gauntlets of Rending are Large. And since they're weapons, they don't resize, right? Doesn't that mean you can't use them as a Medium/Small creature?

You know, I missed that entirely. I guess I'd be using the gloves then.

Medium can use large weapons at a -2. Add to that you AREN'T using them to attack with and there isn't an issue. And lastly, there is a rumoured FAQ coming that gauntlets aren't actually weapons so they MAY end up changing size.

I really hope that faq keeps the "spiked gauntlet" as a weapon, because otherwise my spiked-gauntlet parrying Swashbuckler 1/Gulch Gunner X Ratfolk is gonna be a little screwed.

[graystone]

quibblemuch wrote:

Except that the weapons up-level in handedness.

Where in your natural weapon attack are you attacking with the gauntlets? If you aren't, then handedness doesn't matter does it?

quibblemuch wrote:

A Large longsword is a two-handed weapon. So a Large set of gauntlets would be... you could shove both hands into one?

You can hold a large longsword in one hand, you just can't attack with it... And you aren't attacking with those gauntlets are you?

quibblemuch wrote:

I'm unclear on the consequences.

Oh, they are quite clear: there is NO listed penalty for off-size equipment. if you are truly worried about the size for some reason, use Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers: 1000 gp and now it's medium.

[Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller]

That Gauntlet FAQ has been upcomming for a very, very long time.

Also, there are already published gauntlets with weapon enchantments.
Then there's Shield Gauntlet Style with its prerequisite "Weapon Focus (gauntlet or spiked gauntlet)"...

So yeah, they said there'd be a FAQ, but there's a lot of stuff that'd need to be cleared up...

[Cavall]

Shield gauntlet style tells me it's a weapon. Just a weapon that comes free with some armour.

Up sized gauntlets makes me think you're running around with toy hulk gloves on.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Atalius wrote:

Do you include strength bonus and power attack (if he has it) to the helm of the Mammoth Lord?

I'm pretty sure you do. You get a Gore Attack, a Primary Natural Attack. You get your Full ST Mod and you get Power Attack. I don't see why not.

[Rycaut]

For a bloodrager you should also look at Arcane Strike and Blooded Arcane Strike as potential feats (blooded arcane strike. Arcane strike makes all of your weapons treated as magic for purpose of DR and gives ALL of your attacks a boost to damage (+1 with a further +1 for every 5 caster levels you have). Blooded Arcane Strike means this applies automatically when you enter bloodrage without spending a swift action...

with a natural attack build gaining a boost to damage for EVERY attack is very strong - well worth two feats - however it is strongest if you are a single class not multiclassing. Many of the Bloodrager bloodlines (and spells available) could give you options for future forms that have multiple attacks - look at the shapechanger bloodline (though Arcane's free spells while bloodraging is pretty spectacular - at high levels it can be three free spell/effects plus a spell you cast all applied at the same time prior to potentially a full attack!)