Religions in Starfinder: What faiths changed?


General Discussion

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Sure, the Book of the Damned is beyond the powers of gods, but so is the Gap. There is nothing in the setting information indicating that it was the work of gods at all. The question then is, which is "stronger", so to speak.
I think it could go either way. If the Book is more powerful than whatever created the Gap, then yeah, it'll contain that information. But it could just as well be censored like any other record of things happening in the Gap.


badlands122 wrote:
Faith No More......HAHAHAHAAHAHA... sorry - pun intended: a Band from the late 80's early 90's..........

You're in good company. I was going to go for,

"What's faith got to do, got to do with it? What's faith, but a second hand emotion?"

Yes, I'm old!

My lawn's bigger than yours, and I've got a gun. Get off it whippersnappers!

(scowls at the young people)

(just what the hell is a whippersnapper anyway?)


Ventnor wrote:
My personal theory is that some time during the Gap, Besmara mugged Lamashtu and stoke the monsters portfolio from her.

Besmara already had sea monsters as an area of interest. She just shifted to a space focus.


Nixitur wrote:

Sure, the Book of the Damned is beyond the powers of gods, but so is the Gap. There is nothing in the setting information indicating that it was the work of gods at all. The question then is, which is "stronger", so to speak.

I think it could go either way. If the Book is more powerful than whatever created the Gap, then yeah, it'll contain that information. But it could just as well be censored like any other record of things happening in the Gap.

I'd find it hard to believe given the mechanics of how the books work (they can access information that they weren't even extant at the time it happened) so i'd be inclined to believe that they'd forget... then after about a month of rewriting would have refilled in the gap.

Honestly, if you are telling me that whatever created the gap is stronger than the very beginning's of existence then i'm going to ask you how. How can something have amassed that level of power? You are basically getting into "my guy has infinite power" "well my guy has infinite power + 1" territory there.


What do you mean by "the very beginning of existence"? The Books didn't create the multiverse and neither did Tabris. The Books aren't all-powerful and they're not flawless. The Daemonic section of the Book of the Damned is specifically stated to have been edited, redacted and censored, thus missing some information it should have were it more powerful than the Horsemen. And I'm fairly certain that something able to so completely wipe the memory of mortals, outsiders and possibly even gods alike is more powerful than the Horsemen.
There is also another issue with the Gap and that's that records of it are not just blank or missing, but contradictory. There might simply not be one single "correct" timeline of the Gap. So, the Books might contain information about the Gap, but next time you check, they say something completely different.


Nixitur wrote:

What do you mean by "the very beginning of existence"? The Books didn't create the multiverse and neither did Tabris. The Books aren't all-powerful and they're not flawless. The Daemonic section of the Book of the Damned is specifically stated to have been edited, redacted and censored, thus missing some information it should have were it more powerful than the Horsemen. And I'm fairly certain that something able to so completely wipe the memory of mortals, outsiders and possibly even gods alike is more powerful than the Horsemen.

There is also another issue with the Gap and that's that records of it are not just blank or missing, but contradictory. There might simply not be one single "correct" timeline of the Gap. So, the Books might contain information about the Gap, but next time you check, they say something completely different.

They didn't create the multiverse, but the original gods, Asmodeus and Ihys, did. The Daemonic section is specifically called out as being only a part (and the book's updating/repairing only happens as a complete article). Also, if the gods really COULD censor the book they would have, heck the only reason the daemons could was because it was just a chunk of the book and therefore lacked the connection to the demiplane that the full book contains (where the REAL deific knowledge is hidden).

So now, are you telling me that whatever the Gap is, is strong enough to censor the completed book, when not even two of the earliest gods to ever exist cannot? Sarenrae and Asmodeus BOTH have stuff they'd want not read and canonically the good counterpart, the Chronicle of the Righteous, resisted even the Good Deities (including Sarenrae, number 3 into existence) attempts to censor it (hence why the Apocrypha in it still exists, it just requires access to the Book of the Damned as well to read).

Also, the gods and even outsiders didn't forget the Gap, it's been mentioned that the Fire Elementals who used to live on the sun know what happened and are keeping their lips zipped, which the Gods are doing as well. So it's less a matter of "not even the gods can remember" and more "they don't want to share other than that golarion is safe and it's inhabitants are alive."


Xenocrat wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
My personal theory is that some time during the Gap, Besmara mugged Lamashtu and stoke the monsters portfolio from her.
Besmara already had sea monsters as an area of interest. She just shifted to a space focus.

By stealing the portfolio of space monsters from the goddess of all monsters.

Liberty's Edge

Hazrond wrote:
They didn't create the multiverse, but the original gods, Asmodeus and Ihys, did.

This is factually untrue in the Campaign Setting. The only place it's stated is in an in-world document. Meanwhile, several Archdevil's out-of-character profiles explicitly contradict this whole story.

In short, this story is a lie (almost certainly one perpetrated by Asmodeus).


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Hazrond wrote:
They didn't create the multiverse, but the original gods, Asmodeus and Ihys, did.

This is factually untrue in the Campaign Setting. The only place it's stated is in an in-world document. Meanwhile, several Archdevil's out-of-character profiles explicitly contradict this whole story.

In short, this story is a lie (almost certainly one perpetrated by Asmodeus).

Respectfully, I disagree because we have indications that he still has the spear but I'll stop here mostly because this is getting a bit heated and also because we've strayed pretty far off the topic at this point.


What if when Nethys ascended he SAW the coming of the Gap? And that everything he did after that was to either prevent the Gap or destroy Golarion believing it more merciful than the Gap itself? What if he finally succeeded in destroying Golarion thus causing the Gap without knowing?

I thought Golarion was Rovagug's cage and were it destroyed Rovagug would be free, devouring everything? Either that or something strong enough to not be killed by a coalition of gods was killed by something else? Is there something stonger than Rovagug?

Liberty's Edge

Hazrond wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Hazrond wrote:
They didn't create the multiverse, but the original gods, Asmodeus and Ihys, did.

This is factually untrue in the Campaign Setting. The only place it's stated is in an in-world document. Meanwhile, several Archdevil's out-of-character profiles explicitly contradict this whole story.

In short, this story is a lie (almost certainly one perpetrated by Asmodeus).

Respectfully, I disagree because we have indications that he still has the spear but I'll stop here mostly because this is getting a bit heated and also because we've strayed pretty far off the topic at this point.

Well, there's no contradiction (and it's still a lie) if Ihys existed and Asmodeus killed him, but they were just two powerful Angels at the time rather than the first two beings in existence (which would fit perfectly with the aforementioned Archdevil backstories).

But yeah, I'll drop it.

Shadow Lodge

I find it hilarious that Asmodeus, devil-god of "Everything Belongs To Me, So Hands Off My Stuff!" got the boot from the top 20 religions list.

Also, poor Erastil. Is there still room for him in space, or was he forced into retirement?


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Hazrond wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Hazrond wrote:
They didn't create the multiverse, but the original gods, Asmodeus and Ihys, did.

This is factually untrue in the Campaign Setting. The only place it's stated is in an in-world document. Meanwhile, several Archdevil's out-of-character profiles explicitly contradict this whole story.

In short, this story is a lie (almost certainly one perpetrated by Asmodeus).

Respectfully, I disagree because we have indications that he still has the spear but I'll stop here mostly because this is getting a bit heated and also because we've strayed pretty far off the topic at this point.

Well, there's no contradiction (and it's still a lie) if Ihys existed and Asmodeus killed him, but they were just two powerful Angels at the time rather than the first two beings in existence (which would fit perfectly with the aforementioned Archdevil backstories).

But yeah, I'll drop it.

I'm just going to throw this out there:

James Jacobs wrote:
Heh. More likely, Nyarlathotep was the individual who secretly inspired the person who invented Asmodeus to invent Asmodeus.

From this discussion: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2to2c?Could-Asmodeus-and-Nyarlathotep-be-the-sa me

Moving on:

The Shifty Mongoose wrote:

I find it hilarious that Asmodeus, devil-god of "Everything Belongs To Me, So Hands Off My Stuff!" got the boot from the top 20 religions list.

Also, poor Erastil. Is there still room for him in space, or was he forced into retirement?

As do I, but he is at least still mentioned. Perhaps though, he was a major player in the gap and though he still has his throne atop hell, his influence has grown less and less direct. Hellknights and his forces still exist, and we do have a devil that is a spaceship, but maybe worshipping the Prince of Darkness just isn't as popular, left to members of cults, military orders, and ironically rebellious teenagers? The kingdom of Cheliax isn't exactly around anymore.

Scarab Sages

Asmodeus and Hell have literally corrupted an entire planet, based on the current lore we have. While he/she might not be a core deity, I'd say that is still a pretty strong indication of continued influence.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Shifty Mongoose wrote:
I find it hilarious that Asmodeus, devil-god of "Everything Belongs To Me, So Hands Off My Stuff!" got the boot from the top 20 religions list.

Asmodeus is ancient. He is patient. He waits. He works. The material plane will be his again.


Echo Vining wrote:
The Shifty Mongoose wrote:
I find it hilarious that Asmodeus, devil-god of "Everything Belongs To Me, So Hands Off My Stuff!" got the boot from the top 20 religions list.
Asmodeus is ancient. He is patient. He waits. He works. The material plane will be his again.

And Mephistopheles is happy to let him think that.


Also, don't forget, Starfinder isn't Pathfinder with domains and such. All you need to start running a Priest of a god is their name and a basic idea of their doctrine


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Hazrond wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Hazrond wrote:
They didn't create the multiverse, but the original gods, Asmodeus and Ihys, did.

This is factually untrue in the Campaign Setting. The only place it's stated is in an in-world document. Meanwhile, several Archdevil's out-of-character profiles explicitly contradict this whole story.

In short, this story is a lie (almost certainly one perpetrated by Asmodeus).

Respectfully, I disagree because we have indications that he still has the spear but I'll stop here mostly because this is getting a bit heated and also because we've strayed pretty far off the topic at this point.

Well, there's no contradiction (and it's still a lie) if Ihys existed and Asmodeus killed him, but they were just two powerful Angels at the time rather than the first two beings in existence (which would fit perfectly with the aforementioned Archdevil backstories).

But yeah, I'll drop it.

*cough* My own theory is that the Asmodeus/Ihys conflict is real, but Asmodeus has done a lot to cover up the details, because it is not flattering to him. This is because he won, yes. . . because Ihys deliberately sacrificed his life in the process, spreading the essence of cosmic goodness throughout the, well, cosmos. So now Asmodeus has a "victory" consisting of sitting maimed in the bottom of a pit for an eternity, while the capacity for nobility righteousness and compassion on the part of mortalkind is augmented everywhere.

In other words, he *lost*, because while Evil has to survive to win, Good actually doesn't. This is rather embarassing for Asmodeus.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Shifty Mongoose wrote:

I find it hilarious that Asmodeus, devil-god of "Everything Belongs To Me, So Hands Off My Stuff!" got the boot from the top 20 religions list.

Also, poor Erastil. Is there still room for him in space, or was he forced into retirement?

Like I've said, I suspect he's still got some worshippers, mostly on colony worlds. He really isn't as powerful or important as he used to be, though. Erastil just can't adapt well to a fully urbanized civilization, where the vast majority of people aren't agrarian villagers.

And I bet he complains about this, loudly, to the other deities who actually willingly spend any time with him. ;)


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As for why Asmodeus lost influence, I tend to think its simply that most of his investment in local space had to do with Golarion. It was the big center of his attention in this area of the PMP, particularly in how he was one of the key gods keeping Rovagug trapped. With Golarion now missing/vanished, and Rovagug's imprisonment no longer being an ongoing thing reliant on him, he just doesn't have the same political capital. Better to focus on other areas of interest and plans, maybe wait for a future moment where he can manipulate/coerce events so that other gods actually ask for him to move back in. For the moment though? Just default back to a lower baseline of activity, and wait.


Something just came to mind and I have to share it as food for thought and discussion.

A post by James Jacobs from this thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q6qr?No-aliens-in-the-afterlife

James Jacobs wrote:

There are absolutely aliens in the afterlife... but they don't necessarilly go to the same outer planes as life forms from Golarion! The outer sphere, remember, is UNIMAGINABLY vast, and there are COUNTLESS other planes out there for other cultures and other races (including all those aliens) to go to.

Not all Lawful Good souls go to heaven, in other words. There are other Lawful Good outer planes out there as well. We just don't talk about them for the same reason we don't really focus much on other worlds than Golarion and (to a much lesser extent) the distant worlds of Golarion's solar system—we just don't have the time or resources to detail everything.


Xuldarinar wrote:

Something just came to mind and I have to share it as food for thought and discussion.

A post by James Jacobs from this thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q6qr?No-aliens-in-the-afterlife
-snip-

This may be true in Pathfinder, but I don't think Jacobs is involved in Starfinder, so I'd take that with a grain of salt. The Starfinder CRB states that when a mortal dies, it ends up on one of the Outer Planes and furthermore says that "each plane represents one of the nine metaphysical alignments". It mentions only the nine Outer Planes we know from Pathfinder, and makes no mention of any others.

And don't forget that even some core races in Starfinder are extremely alien, not even hailing from the same star system. If they ended up on planes other than those nine after death, I'm sure it would say so.
There is mention of there maybe being something beyond the Outer Sphere, but whatever that is, it's certainly not the afterlife.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree. The Outer Planes *are* unimaginably vast, but no, there aren't a bajillion independent disconnected LG or CE or whatnot planes. There's just the ones there are. . . with infinite space and infinite variation contained within.

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