We are finishing up rortl anny edition. Next to tackle age of worms it seems the party healer is going to be a healing witch. I havent had time to reserch it much, but it kinda sounds to be a subpar healer, and I was just wondering what others had experianced with it?
One huge bonus is that the Witch can heal as many times per day as she likes, so long as the recipient hasn't already received healing from her that day. In a small party this is not as useful as it can be, but on a wider scale she could potentially heal a small army each and every day without the need for additional healers. Great if you have followers and minions.
It also works in reverse against Undead - skeleton killer par excellence.
Add that to 'free' Brew Potion and she is a great resource.
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Go half orc scarred witch doctor hedge witch. Then you are a CON based healing witch so you can eat a hit yourself if need be.
Whats is there pontenial to heal on a large scale to a smaller party, can they keep up front people up and swinging swords in combat?
I am currently playing a witch with the healing patron, and she has been a boon for our party.
In another thread, someone suggested pairing the scar hex with the healing hex, since scar gives the witch the ability to cast hexes on the scarred subject from up to a mile away. She can heal the fighter even if he's surrounded by adversaries and she can't safely reach him.
I'd personally suggest the siphon poison feat, out of the Faiths of Purity companion (I think), which cures poison with a successful heal check, if administered with 2 rounds of poisoning. My GM has come to hate that feat, but the party adores their witch.
She also uses the Ward hex on our rogue or ranger, when they're off scouting on their own. The witch immediately knows if the ward falls, and so knows when the rogue or ranger is in danger, and can alert the party. There are other ways to accomplish that, of course, but we're still fairly low level.
Whats is there pontenial to heal on a large scale to a smaller party, can they keep up front people up and swinging swords in combat?Probably not, but most clerics can't either. What witches can do quite well is prevent damage.
You have three and a half major tools for this. First, there's slumber. You can take a low will opponent out of the fight every turn. You have some save or lose spells for fortitude as well.
Second, you can force rerolls. The misfortune hex and the first level spell ill omen are your tools here. Victims will hit less and crit less.
Third there's the evil eye cackle combination. You can take even a passed save evil eye and extend it with cackle for an accuracy penalty or use some other variant to make opponents die faster.
You also have good tools for preparing targets for save or loses. The rerolls from misfortune and ill omen can be forced on saving throws, and if you use quicken spell or work with another caster you can use at least one of the rerolls from ill omen before the victim has a chance to negate it. Misfortune comes up again here as well
And you can stack this all together. At level seven You can evil eye and have your arbiter familiar use a wand of ill omen and someone's rolling twice for their first attack and taking -2 to all their attacks. Next round cackle and evil eye the next guy while your familiar keeps wanding the most dangerous. That wand will prevent a lot more damage than a wand of CLW heals. Eventually you might find it worth your while to craft one at CL 5 to force the first two d20s to reroll.
And, yeah, when someone's in danger of dropping you can toss them a cure and you can buy all the remove and restore spells to fix damage that can't be fixed with a bundle of CLW wands.
The healing hex is that the once a day per perzson heal? If so it seems almost useless unless i'm missing something< but one cure x spell per person per day seems weak. Can a witch deliver spells through the scar hex or just other hexs?
The healing hex is that the once a day per perzson heal? If so it seems almost useless unless i'm missing something< but one cure x spell per person per day seems weak. Can a witch...Whats is there pontenial to heal on a large scale to a smaller party, can they keep up front people up and swinging swords in combat?Probably not, but most clerics can't either. What witches can do quite well is prevent damage.
You have three and a half major tools for this. First, there's slumber. You can take a low will opponent out of the fight every turn. You have some save or lose spells for fortitude as well.
Second, you can force rerolls. The misfortune hex and the first level spell ill omen are your tools here. Victims will hit less and crit less.
Third there's the evil eye cackle combination. You can take even a passed save evil eye and extend it with cackle for an accuracy penalty or use some other variant to make opponents die faster.
You also have good tools for preparing targets for save or loses. The rerolls from misfortune and ill omen can be forced on saving throws, and if you use quicken spell or work with another caster you can use at least one of the rerolls from ill omen before the victim has a chance to negate it. Misfortune comes up again here as well
And you can stack this all together. At level seven You can evil eye and have your arbiter familiar use a wand of ill omen and someone's rolling twice for their first attack and taking -2 to all their attacks. Next round cackle and evil eye the next guy while your familiar keeps wanding the most dangerous. That wand will prevent a lot more damage than a wand of CLW heals. Eventually you might find it worth your while to craft one at CL 5 to force the first two d20s to reroll.
And, yeah, when someone's in danger of dropping you can toss them a cure and you can buy all the remove and restore spells to fix damage that can't be fixed with a bundle of CLW wands.
I understand no healer can out pace damage but clerics and life oracles that are built right can really keep you in the fight alot longer then say bard as your healer. I'm just yrying to see where a witch fits on that sliding scale of effectiveness
A witch is better than a bard due to healing hex but not as good as a cleric or a life oracle due to lack of channeling.
Only hexes can be cast through a scar, but witches can also cast touch spells through their familiar once they reach 3rd level. I played a witch who had her spider scurrying around stealthily behind the lines delivering cure spells.
...I was just wondering what others had experianced with it?
Those need lemon and ginger sauce. Braise if it from Galt.
Go half orc scarred witch doctor hedge witch. Then you are a CON based healing witch so you can eat a hit yourself if need be.
Yuk. Pressure cooker with lots tomatoes for acidity.
Witch is quite decent healer from my experience. Her familiar can be used to deliver touch spells and hexes which is additional boon.
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A healer who can do nothing but heal is a waste of time. A witch is certainly an acceptable healer.
If there are other characters in the party who can toss out a heal from time to time -- e.g. a melee-focused cleric or druid, a buffing bard or a sorceror with Infernal Healing and UMD with a CLW stick, then a normal witch or any useful archetype is fine. If the witch is going to be the only character in there with healing capabilities, then the hedge witch archetype will be useful, since you won't have to prep healing spells and you'll be able to apply metamagic to healing spells on the fly.
The healing hex is better than it sounds - it's equivalent to a number of additional CLW spell slots (or CMW at later levels) equal to the number of people in your party plus the number of NPCs you might find it useful to heal plus the number of undead the witch wants to risk using a touch attack on. That could potentially be a LOT of healing. Consider -- any time you fight a bad guy who you don't want to kill, you have to either expend a charge from a wand or use a spell if you don't have a wand, in order to get him above 0 after you knock him out, stabilize him, and tie him up. The witch with healing hex can do this, usually, without expending a limited resource.
Is the witch a healbot on par with the life oracle/paladin with fey foundling, 20 charisma, extra channels, lifelink and energy body? Certainly not. But that healbot also can't shut down enemies with Misfortune, accumulate unlimited spells for utility, become a viable item crafter, or gain any of the many extremely useful hexes that a witch can acquire.
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Witches can be viable healers if you focus on damage prevention and battlefield control.
it's kinda like a discipline priest on WoW, their heals aren't too large, but they prevent damage with bubbles and the like.
A healer who can do nothing but heal is a waste of time. A witch is certainly an acceptable healer.
If there are other characters in the party who can toss out a heal from time to time -- e.g. a melee-focused cleric or druid, a buffing bard or a sorceror with Infernal Healing and UMD with a CLW stick, then a normal witch or any useful archetype is fine. If the witch is going to be the only character in there with healing capabilities, then the hedge witch archetype will be useful, since you won't have to prep healing spells and you'll be able to apply metamagic to healing spells on the fly.
The healing hex is better than it sounds - it's equivalent to a number of additional CLW spell slots (or CMW at later levels) equal to the number of people in your party plus the number of NPCs you might find it useful to heal plus the number of undead the witch wants to risk using a touch attack on. That could potentially be a LOT of healing. Consider -- any time you fight a bad guy who you don't want to kill, you have to either expend a charge from a wand or use a spell if you don't have a wand, in order to get him above 0 after you knock him out, stabilize him, and tie him up. The witch with healing hex can do this, usually, without expending a limited resource.
Is the witch a healbot on par with the life oracle/paladin with fey foundling, 20 charisma, extra channels, lifelink and energy body? Certainly not. But that healbot also can't shut down enemies with Misfortune, accumulate unlimited spells for utility, become a viable item crafter, or gain any of the many extremely useful hexes that a witch can acquire.
We have a party of five two barbarains, a bomb chucking alchemist, the witch and the fifth is undecided but mostly likely wont play a secondary healer. It just seems if youe do take a good chuck of damage and knowing our dm that will happen and prob often wouldnt the witch going to have to blow her load to fix someone because one clw per person a day wont help a guy to much thats on the verge of death. Also whats the deal with that paladin oracle its sounds kinda sweet.
Witches can be viable healers if you focus on damage prevention and battlefield control.
it's kinda like a discipline priest on WoW, their heals aren't too large, but they prevent damage with bubbles and the like.
Not sure if its just our dm but damge prevention helps some, but battle feild control proves almost useless. Do others not have that problem?
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Not sure if its just our dm but damge prevention helps some, but battle feild control proves almost useless. Do others not have that problem?Witches can be viable healers if you focus on damage prevention and battlefield control.
it's kinda like a discipline priest on WoW, their heals aren't too large, but they prevent damage with bubbles and the like.
I am playing in a game where I am the primary healer as a witch with the healing hex and the healing patron (for condition removal) but that is mostly because in my group, in combat healing is an emergency thing, not something that is expected to be used every combat. If someone has to dedicate their actions to 'keeping the party up' every encounter, something is off. It could be your party makeup, but it could also be your dm. Some dms will ramp up difficulty untill someone is knocked out in every fight simply because that is what is satisfying in terms of difficulty to them. Things like battlefield control and debuffing just make that sort of dm make encounters harder, and dont accomplish a whole lot.
If you have that sort of dm, then nothing but a channeling (with selective channel) oracle or cleric is a going to be sufficient most likely, or if 3-4 members of the party are capable of healing in a pinch (bards, paladins, druids etc).
But for most groups, particularly those who run modules as written or close to it, most healing happens after encounters are over, and one cure per person per day plus a spell or two in reserver for emergencies is plenty.
Not sure if its just our dm but damge prevention helps some, but battle feild control proves almost useless. Do others not have that problem?Witches can be viable healers if you focus on damage prevention and battlefield control.
it's kinda like a discipline priest on WoW, their heals aren't too large, but they prevent damage with bubbles and the like.
I am playing in a game where I am the primary healer as a witch with the healing hex and the healing patron (for condition removal) but that is mostly because in my group, in combat healing is an emergency thing, not something that is expected to be used every combat. If someone has to dedicate their actions to 'keeping the party up' every encounter, something is off. It could be your party makeup, but it could also be your dm. Some dms will ramp up difficulty untill someone is knocked out in every fight simply because that is what is satisfying in terms of difficulty to them. Things like battlefield control and debuffing just make that sort of dm make encounters harder, and dont accomplish a whole lot.
If you have that sort of dm, then nothing but a channeling (with selective channel) oracle or cleric is a going to be sufficient most likely, or if 3-4 members of the party are capable of healing in a pinch (bards, paladins, druids etc).
But for most groups, particularly those who run modules as written or close to it, most healing happens after encounters are over, and one cure per person per day plus a spell or two in reserver for emergencies is plenty.
WE play written ap paths, but he has told us the he puts advance templetes on alot of things and boosts hp to max one most things because we have a party of five guys, but 9/10 we need someone doing a good deal of healing or it would be game over. Basicly just trying to see if the witch is suitable to that kinda healing stituion, or if I should suggest my a life orcle to the witch palyer as he dosent want a cleric.
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WE play written ap paths, but he has told us the he puts advance templetes on alot of things and boosts hp to max one most things because we have a party of five guys, but 9/10 we need someone doing a good deal of healing or it would be game over. Basicly just trying to see if the witch is suitable to that kinda healing stituion, or if I should suggest my a life orcle to the witch palyer as he dosent want a cleric.
Right, so yes, chances are nothing but a life oracle or cleric would be able to suit such a purpose. But I think it is in appropriate to ask the player to change his class to suit this need. In a group like that I'd say its the responsibility of every member of the party to make sure they bring some kind of healing to the table, so that one person doesnt have to be the 'healer'. But thats my personal preference. I have a serious distaste for such a 'role' in a roleplaying game. Its kind of lame for one person to have to be everyone else's bandaid so they can have fun smashing things.
WE play written ap paths, but he has told us the he puts advance templetes on alot of things and boosts hp to max one most things because we have a party of five guys, but 9/10 we need someone doing a good deal of healing or it would be game over.
Depends on why you need a lot of in-combat healing. If you need it a lot because you're suboptimised as a group, then a witch who heals as a secondary activity could use preventative spells and hexes to keep you from getting into the situation where you need significant in-combat healing. If, on the other hand, your GM makes things harder and harder until he's satisfied that you've taken so much damage that only a healer can save you, then a primary healer might be a must-have.
WE play written ap paths, but he has told us the he puts advance templetes on alot of things and boosts hp to max one most things because we have a party of five guys, but 9/10 we need someone doing a good deal of healing or it would be game over. Basicly just trying to see if the witch is suitable to that kinda healing stituion, or if I should suggest my a life orcle to the witch palyer as he dosent want a cleric.Right, so yes, chances are nothing but a life oracle or cleric would be able to suit such a purpose. But I think it is in appropriate to ask the player to change his class to suit this need. In a group like that I'd say its the responsibility of every member of the party to make sure they bring some kind of healing to the table, so that one person doesnt have to be the 'healer'. But thats my personal preference. I have a serious distaste for such a 'role' in a roleplaying game. Its kind of lame for one person to have to be everyone else's bandaid so they can have fun smashing things.
As the celric for the last two aps I fully agree that that "role" kinda blows. So he plays healing witch and everyone sublimtes by packing some potions sshould be sufficent.
As the celric for the last two aps I fully agree that that "role" kinda blows. So he plays healing witch and everyone sublimtes by packing some potions sshould be sufficent.WE play written ap paths, but he has told us the he puts advance templetes on alot of things and boosts hp to max one most things because we have a party of five guys, but 9/10 we need someone doing a good deal of healing or it would be game over. Basicly just trying to see if the witch is suitable to that kinda healing stituion, or if I should suggest my a life orcle to the witch palyer as he dosent want a cleric.Right, so yes, chances are nothing but a life oracle or cleric would be able to suit such a purpose. But I think it is in appropriate to ask the player to change his class to suit this need. In a group like that I'd say its the responsibility of every member of the party to make sure they bring some kind of healing to the table, so that one person doesnt have to be the 'healer'. But thats my personal preference. I have a serious distaste for such a 'role' in a roleplaying game. Its kind of lame for one person to have to be everyone else's bandaid so they can have fun smashing things.
You might also ask your dm if he's willing to allow 3.5 healing belts. They are sort of a staple in my group so that the divine casters arent always stuck on bandaid duty.
Everyone should have some way to get themselves back into fighting shape, even if its just a couple potions handy. After all, the 'healer' can go down just as easily as everyone else. If that happens and everyone else isnt prepared, you are hosed as a party.
A well-played witch, even one with the hedge witch archetype, healing hex, and healing patron, will prevent far more damage than ze heals. Misforture paired with Cackle can shut the strongest enemy down, especially since big bruiser melee types usually have a poor will save. Evil eye can penalize attacks even if the save is made. Slumber can shut down mooks or even sometimes the big bad very efficiently. At higher levels, Agony is pretty much designed to shut down spellcasters (low Fort save) and ice tomb is a total Save or Lose effect.
The witch can also use wands of Cure Light Wounds, or use the cauldron hex to produce lots of potions. Wands are cheaper, and if they're not available in shops, the witch can take Craft Wand to produce them. It's worth the feat investment for effectively unlimited out-of-combat healing.
As for armor, a witch can cast mage armor, which pretty much takes care of things. Most healing-focused clerics or oracles wouldn't do much more than, say, a chain shirt or studded leather, since they wouldn't see front-line combat much, and they wouldn't have a very high strength.
Don't forget to check out the Symbol of Healing spell the witch will get access to in a few levels. the group can pool money to make a few of those permanent.
I've personally played a Hedge Witch with the healing patron through 13 levels so far, and I feel immensely useful.
The ability to spontaneously cast cures like a cleric is useful for emergency healing, and it means I get to prepare all sort of nasty spells to hinder and annoy our enemies.
I feel like the healing patron is important for the restoration spells, and i've taken a lot of other condition removal spells as well.
This, together with our awesome buffing bard, means that our party is pretty much always buffed and our enemies often debuffed, which means that our more offensively minded party members have a much easier time killing stuff.
I also find the Hexes to be a lovely addition. It pretty much means, that even if I should somehow run out of spells, I still have ways to be effective in battle. I've recently added the Major hex Retribution, and I just can't wait to use it :)
Personally I like the witch spell list better than the cleric spell list, especially from a CC/Debuff point of view, and I feel like one of the reasons we need little in battle healing, is because i'm able to hinder the damage in the first place.
As a final note, we're playing RotRL ourselves, and so far we've had a total of three deaths. One died before I had access to revival magic, one has been revived (by me) and the third was myself, but i'm about to be revived as soon as my body is found. (Which it hopefully will be <_<;)
TLDR:
I've played a healing Witch for 13 levels, I enjoy it and I feel very useful.
We have a Hedge Witch in our one party and she does great. Not having Channeling hurts a little, but she makes up for it with Ward and the ability to shut down enemies with Pacify. Also Healing Hex is great! A free healing spell per person per day.
Witch can also use her familiar to deliver healing spells so that helps with the ranged healing if you are ok putting the familiar at risk. The Valet Familiar Archetype can help with that.
Alternatively there is also the Prehensile Hair Hex that could be used to deliver touch at 10 feet.
Plus a Male Witch with Prehensile Mustache is just all kinds of cool
I understand no healer can out pace damage but clerics and life oracles that are built right can really keep you in the fight alot longer then say bard as your healer. I'm just yrying to see where a witch fits on that sliding scale of effectiveness
Yes, they can. Really.
But the Witch is a great back up healer. Not in a league with Life Oracle or Heal Domain clerics or Hosptialer pally's, but darn good.
Restoration is a must have, so Healing is the Patron.
I understand no healer can out pace damage but clerics and life oracles that are built right can really keep you in the fight alot longer then say bard as your healer. I'm just yrying to see where a witch fits on that sliding scale of effectivenessYes, they can. Really.
But the Witch is a great back up healer. Not in a league with Life Oracle or Heal Domain clerics or Hosptialer pally's, but darn good.
Restoration is a must have, so Healing is the Patron.
Healing Clerics need CON WIS and CHA
Life Oracles only need CON and CHA. unless they are an intelligent undead with the life dominant soul feat, which means they only need CHA.