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Alien Archive vs Core and First Contact


Rules Questions


Starfinder Superscriber

Looking through Alien Archive, i noticed more playable races. I also noticed that unlike in CRB or First contact, the new races. and some reprints, have different attribute bonus/ penalty. For example, in First contact, Space Goblins get a +4 Dex, and -1 Cha. In Alien Archive, they have a +4 Dex and -2 Cha. There are other examples as well. So my question is which is correct? The First Contact fits better with the races in the CRB. Do all races now get a -2 where they had a -1?


First Contact was a preview before the rules and balance for Starfinder were finalized. Now that Alien Archive is out, all (most?) of the content in First Contact should be disregarded.

The version of Space Goblins in Alien Archive is correct.

Liberty's Edge

In First Contact, at the bottom of page 4, it states "These monsters were created using the Starfinder rules available at the time of writing, which may change in the final version of the game."

As Alien Archive is the final version, it should be used.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

Gary Bush wrote:

In First Contact, at the bottom of page 4, it states "These monsters were created using the Starfinder rules available at the time of writing, which may change in the final version of the game."

As Alien Archive is the final version, it should be used.

Correct.


Starfinder Superscriber

Not a problem but it does not cover the changes made between the Core book and Alien Archive. So is the Core racial attribute adjustment also before finalization or not? The races in First contact seems to use the same setup as the Core book and the Alien Archive seems to go back to more of the Pathfinder system.


I don't understand what you are saying. Alien Archive is more like the CRB than First Contact. In the CRB, every race has +2, +2, -2, except humans. In AA every race has a net of +2, which is the same as the CRB. FC has many different nets, like Space Goblin's 3.

Liberty's Edge

bedeviler wrote:
Not a problem but it does not cover the changes made between the Core book and Alien Archive. So is the Core racial attribute adjustment also before finalization or not? The races in First contact seems to use the same setup as the Core book and the Alien Archive seems to go back to more of the Pathfinder system.

What changes between CRB and AA? I don't recall any crossover in creatures between the two.

The racial attributes in CRB are final for player characters. There are no monster races in CRB that I can recall.

As CatusUnicorn noted, all the racial attributes net to a +2 in AA, the same as in CRB.

Sorry, not understanding your question.

Dark Archive

Something to consider too when trying to compare FC to AA/CRB - its kind of an apples to oranges comparison. The stats listed for FC were the attribute modifiers, not the amount you added to each race's attributes. So, that -1 Cha mod that a goblin had was effectively a -2 to the actual attribute.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No, the rules in first contact they mean were the ability buy points, as in what you added when you were buying your attribute scores.

But they obviously went a different direction between first contact and final rules. My guess is that in FC era, the single point was so that, with the single point we also gain with themes, all attributes could be even if desired. And now that's no longer the case.

As everyone else says though, I didn't notice a change between CRB and AA.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

3 people marked this as a favorite.

The plan was never to have it set up to you can have all even ability scores. The +1 from themes is mostly there to make it easier to have a 13 in an ability score you'd otherwise have a 12 in, so you can qualify for feats with a 13 in that ability score (which, obviously, involves a fair amount of future-proofing since we don't have a huge number of such feats yet).
But yes, we had a totally different point buy system in playlets when we did FC, and no part of it survives the final version of the rules in either Core or AA.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

The plan was never to have it set up to you can have all even ability scores. The +1 from themes is mostly there to make it easier to have a 13 in an ability score you'd otherwise have a 12 in, so you can qualify for feats with a 13 in that ability score (which, obviously, involves a fair amount of future-proofing since we don't have a huge number of such feats yet).

But yes, we had a totally different point buy system in playlets when we did FC, and no part of it survives the final version of the rules in either Core or AA.

I have been going mad wanting to ask you this question:

Why not just make the theme bonus +2?
That devilish +1 is almost useless(except for feats, and it would still be, even more so, if it was 2) and drives me crazy. Obviously.
So Why???? Help me understand!

Thank you.

AtD


Probably precisely to keep it from being vastly useful. Its Theme, not your class or race, its not supposed to be dominant in influence.

Liberty's Edge

As Owen said, to make it so people can qualify for feats that have 13.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gary Bush wrote:
As Owen said, to make it so people can qualify for feats that have 13.

1. I already covered that.

2. Thats putting the cart before the horse.
3. If you must then +2 would help qualify even more.

AtD


Ahpook The Destroyer wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
As Owen said, to make it so people can qualify for feats that have 13.

1. I already covered that.

2. Thats putting the cart before the horse.
3. If you must then +2 would help qualify even more.

AtD

It is so you can qualify for feats WiTHOUT getting a bonus to the modifier. Then point is that you don't get a bonus to your modifier, you JUST qualify for feats.


CactusUnicorn wrote:


It is so you can qualify for feats WiTHOUT getting a bonus to the modifier. Then point is that you don't get a bonus to your modifier, you JUST qualify for feats.

But why even do that? Like I said its like putting the cart before the horse. It just seems so random to put a pointless odd numbered limitation in there, only to then give you something JUST to overcome it with no other gameplay value. Especially with the way stats increase.

AtD


I don't understand why you don't get this. Themes are supposed to give you a minor benifet. A way to get a minor benefit is to qualify for feats. To do that without making a prerequisite a theme, which would be ridiculously stupid, they make it odd numbers and give them a +1.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just because themes give a minor benefit doesn't mean that was the only way to write them. They could have easily chosen to have themes give +2, or no ability modifier at all, and it would have been all the same to use because we had no basis for comparison.

Even the given justification for the +1, feats, could have been solved by simply adjusting the feats to require a score of 12 or 14. Given how ability scores are improved in SF, I'm a little surprised they didn't go that route, but it's water under the bridge now.

Liberty's Edge

Shrug.

It is what it is. I don't think you will get any more answers to your questions on this topic.

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