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Way of the Wicked Campaign


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

Grand Lodge

Now it is more then possible that such ships have already sailed, but is there any campaigns using the WotW adventure path or those who might being with to help start one up?

Now I understand, for many the WotW has been soured or made bitter because of the issues involving the creator and the Throne of Night kickstarter... Yet if I can, I'd still like to play through WotW for myself... Hopefully it is not too late.


Despite the issues with Throne of Night I have seen the occasional game popup on roll20.

I have not seen any recently though.

I would suggest checking Enworld. I haven't been there in a while, but they used to post opening for games there.

Grand Lodge

I believe that I have an account on Enworld, so I guess I could always check there to see if anyone might have a game setup or that is looking for players.


I've run into people mentioning that they were still relatively early on in Way of the Wicked about 3-4 times in the past month, month and a half, so there do seem to be people out there playing it still, yeah.


My group just started Way of the Wicked and I've prepped the first four books. It looks to be a solid product and should make for a fun game.

To be honest, I didn't know about the issues until reading this thread and doing some research. But then I don't get into the kickstarter thing or run adventure paths where all of the volumes haven't been released. I prefer to use "seasoned" products.

Grand Lodge

Coidzor - I'm glad to hear! Any chance you have a way of getting in contact with any of them and might be looking for new players, or perhaps you can direct me too them?

Mike J - Do you know if you're group is looking for any new players?


Jonathon Wilder wrote:

Coidzor - I'm glad to hear! Any chance you have a way of getting in contact with any of them and might be looking for new players, or perhaps you can direct me too them?

Mike J - Do you know if you're group is looking for any new players?

I believe they were asking for advice for home games for the most part. I think one or two is still in the advice section, but at least one of them got locked or deleted and the other was moved to the third party products subforum.

Grand Lodge

I will go searching around for such posters or threads, see what or who I might find.


issue? what issue is there with wotw? (beside being a 3rd party ap)


I think Shadow is looking for a replacement cleric or other Divine in his campaign- you may want to look into that.

Liberty's Edge

Do you live near Eastern Iowa?

Grand Lodge

Dαedαlus wrote:
I think Shadow is looking for a replacement cleric or other Divine in his campaign- you may want to look into that.

Thanks!

Irranshalee wrote:
Do you live near Eastern Iowa?

No where close, I live at Magna, Utah.


I was in one Roll 20 WotW campaign. It was an utter disaster. Players took it as an opportunity to whip out all of their darkest, most disruptive, PVP actions. We lasted exactly 2 sessions in before the GM threw his hands in the air and cancelled the game.

I tried to run it once... Had the same thing happen. The issue is that on open forums like Roll20, you have to vet your players super thoroughly. It is really hard to tell who is going to be disruptive, who is going to troll, and what not.

It is hard to keep a normal game running without a core group of players who have built up a rapport with each other. It is much, much, harder to do that when the premise of the game is, "This is the game for your evil ideas!"

Then you are facing the uphill battle that already exists, splitting the "gag player" from the "serious player" which is a headache in and of itself. By this (gag player) I mean a player who makes the goofiest character they possibly can that is nothing more than a meme-spewing joke. These players are the death of countless "serious" games, such as Call of Cthulhu, World of Darkness (new and old), and the like... This includes Way of the Wicked.

So my advice for WotW is simple:

Form a real life group, with people you know, ignore the internet, and stick to a close knit group of mature friends who are willing to take the game seriously, who want to play evil characters, but don't want to just PVP and backstab each other.


HWalsh wrote:

I was in one Roll 20 WotW campaign. It was an utter disaster. Players took it as an opportunity to whip out all of their darkest, most disruptive, PVP actions. We lasted exactly 2 sessions in before the GM threw his hands in the air and cancelled the game.

I tried to run it once... Had the same thing happen. The issue is that on open forums like Roll20, you have to vet your players super thoroughly. It is really hard to tell who is going to be disruptive, who is going to troll, and what not.

It is hard to keep a normal game running without a core group of players who have built up a rapport with each other. It is much, much, harder to do that when the premise of the game is, "This is the game for your evil ideas!"

Then you are facing the uphill battle that already exists, splitting the "gag player" from the "serious player" which is a headache in and of itself. By this (gag player) I mean a player who makes the goofiest character they possibly can that is nothing more than a meme-spewing joke. These players are the death of countless "serious" games, such as Call of Cthulhu, World of Darkness (new and old), and the like... This includes Way of the Wicked.

So my advice for WotW is simple:

Form a real life group, with people you know, ignore the internet, and stick to a close knit group of mature friends who are willing to take the game seriously, who want to play evil characters, but don't want to just PVP and backstab each other.

This is all pretty true. The problems generally lie in not having enough pre-game conversation about social contract issues.

Having serious discussions about expectations and obligations between players is good for any game, but it is absolutely vital in an Evil game.

WotW discusses this in the intro of book one, and then also tries to reinforce the social contract in-game with a literal contract, signed in blood. It's about as heavy handed as possible with the "yes you're the bad guys but you're going to be loyal to each other and work together or there will be literal hell to pay" stuff.

I guess some groups just don't enforce that.


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In conrast to HWalsh, my experience with the WotW AP thus far (currently on Book #2) has actually been quite positive. That said, it needs to be made absolutely, completely, 100% clear up front that it is NOT an AP for PvP or CE characters, and that the party needs to work together OOCly to ensure they have solid characters who can work together in a group without devolving into a pit of backstabbing or overly-tense relationships; as Evil characters in a Good nation, they already have enough enemies without making themselves their own enemies.

Not to mention that the AP has a built-in anti-PvP plot device, as it were.

Way of the Wicked recruitments seem to fill up pretty fast on the PbP forums here; one just last month got over 30 submissions while it was open. So there's definitely high demand for WotW groups, if one is willing to DM.


I played WotW with an online group, and they we played like smart evil characters not as evil lunatics.

With any evil campaign you have to set expectations up front, and let players know that being a PC does not equate to automatic victory. Doing stupid things could mean the local law officials or good adventures come after them. If it ends in a TPK then so be it. That alone will get help keep some people away.


1) People are totally still playing WotW on various PbP forums. The unpleasantness with Throne of Night has probably driven some people away, but for a 3PP AP published 5-6 years ago it's still going incredibly strong.

2) I've run it twice now: once PBP and once FTF. Interestingly, in both cases I had one player who was problematic. The first one just wasn't a team player. It wasn't chaotic evil or PvP issue. More like, he envisaged himself as The Dark Lord right away, at first level, and was trying to high-handedly manage the adventure without much regard for the other players because I Am Hell's Chosen One. That didn't work out so great. But once he left, the PBP ran very smoothly with the five remaining players for about a year and a half of pretty intense play.

The FTF time, there was one player who just wanted to do his own thing. The in-game pact kept him in line for all of the first module, but halfway through the second he encountered the thing that makes you a chaotic evil serial killer. He embraced this hard, and for a few sessions things got difficult. Finally I staged an in-game intervention: the Cardinal showed up and removed the curse (by killing him horribly and then bringing him back to life). To my mild surprise, this worked just fine! The player accepted that his character had been set back on the straight and narrow path, and going forward he played it as "I may yearn for that brief sunshine-filled spring of happy carefree murder, but I realize now that my duty is to Asmodeus and my destiny is to rule". So, that worked out unexpectedly well.

More generally, the munchkin / meme / PvP / silly / chaotic /disgusting / EEEVIL players seem less common than you might think. IME most players will accept and understand the "contract" of the game if you explain it clearly before hand. Gary wisely spells it out in the module as three simple rules: No PvP, no gross-out evil, and you have design a character who'd be willing to sign the in-game contract.

Honestly, I think it really is about expectations. Be clear on those upfront and you'll probably be fine.

Doug M.


Jonathon Wilder wrote:
Now I understand, for many the WotW has been soured or made bitter because of the issues involving the creator and the Throne of Night kickstarter... Yet if I can, I'd still like to play through WotW for myself... Hopefully it is not too late.

Do you want to run it, or play in it? If run it, I'm happy to help. I was an editor on the last three modules, and used to correspond regularly with Gary, the creator, back in the days when Gary answered e-mails.

If play in it, my suggestion would be to post on the PBP forums and ask if anyone is willing to be a DM.

Doug M.

Grand Lodge

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Do you want to run it, or play in it? If run it, I'm happy to help. I was an editor on the last three modules, and used to correspond regularly with Gary, the creator, back in the days when Gary answered e-mails.

If play in it, my suggestion would be to post on the PBP forums and ask if anyone is willing to be a DM.

Doug M.

If I could have someone who could advise and guide me, I'd be willing to be the Dungeon Master... Though I'll be honest and admit I don't have a great amount of experience with such, particularly when it comes to a campaign such as WotW with an evil party. As such, your assistance would be much appreciated.

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