I don't get what this PrC is going for - False Priest.


Lost Omens Products


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/false-prie st/

Mechanically, this is just an arcane spellcaster that's learned how to mimic divine powers.

The flavor they're trying to push onto it, though, makes no sense. The character is required to be non-good, requires ranks in Bluff, and gets abilities like Master of Lies that give bonuses to Bluff, which makes it seem like they're going for some hugely evil false prophet thing...

...except also the character is required to worship a real god and to go through an intense ritual proving their faith and devotion and "emerging as an absolute believer" according to the text. This means that they are NOT liars, they are NOT false prophets, that whether they're right or wrong at the very least what they're saying is absolutely, positively, 100% what they honestly believe. This seems to run 180 degrees in the reverse of the whole "evil false prophet liar" thing that they're otherwise pushing for.

I feel like this is Paizo's #1 biggest problem: they're good at mechanics but TERRIBLE at story and flavor. They try to force flavor into places where it doesn't belong and without any idea of what they even want that flavor to be.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not every archetype/feat/PrC was designed with PCs in mind. This PrC in particular, actually called Razmiran Priest (with name changed by d20pfsrd) was designed for a faction that's pretty much universally antagonists in the Golarion setting.

The "god" you are refering is originally the false god Razmir. The PrC makes little sense when the Golarion flavour is cut out but hey, that didn't stop d20pfsrd from listing it. You can find the original PrC, with no lore elements cut away, here.

Grand Lodge

Its a OGC version of this:

Razmiran Priest

And the flavor is exactly where they want it to be.

D20pfsrd strips out a lot of the flavor because they have to to meet obligation by the OGL licence not to use IP.

Archives of Nethys is non-profit so it gets to use the IP under community use.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Technicality: this issue has nothing to do with OGL (OGL itself covers only open content, which setting stuff is not). It's the Paizo Community Use License that allows you to use proper given names from the Golarion setting ... as long as your website (in this case) is non-commercial, which Archives of Nethys are and d20pfsrd isn't.


That makes a lot more sense then.

Grand Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:
Technicality: this issue has nothing to do with OGL (OGL itself covers only open content, which setting stuff is not). It's the Paizo Community Use License that allows you to use proper given names from the Golarion setting ... as long as your website (in this case) is non-commercial, which Archives of Nethys are and d20pfsrd isn't.

Didn't claim OGL, I claimed OGC. The there is a big difference, but you already knew that.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, you said that OGL requires you not to use IP - *technically* it's not quite exactly that, because open content is still somebody's IP. Wizards of the Coast still *owns* flumphs, it's just that you can use them without their permission as long as you follow the OGL, because the name went open content.

If Razmir was open content, he would still be Paizo's property. He's not, but there's the Community license ... meaning some can use him, some can't.


As an aside... what is the difference between OGC and OGL? I'm pretty sure OGL is the Open Gaming License, but not sure what OGC is.

Grand Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:
... meaning some can use him, some can't.

>.>

Um that's not how the Community licence works. You meet the obligations or you don't. The licence doesn't specify who can or cannot use content, just the methodology of how to content.

Grand Lodge

knight9910 wrote:
As an aside... what is the difference between OGC and OGL? I'm pretty sure OGL is the Open Gaming License, but not sure what OGC is.

OGC means Open Game Content. Generally Paizo designates all of its intellectual property as being "closed content", and the rest to be open content. There have been subtle shift over the years, but for the most part I believe this to be true.


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Herald wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
... meaning some can use him, some can't.

>.>

Um that's not how the Community licence works. You meet the obligations or you don't. The licence doesn't specify who can or cannot use content, just the methodology of how to content.

It’s prohibited to use the CUP if you’re a commercial user or if Paizo considers you to be in the publishing business.

I think that’s what Gorbacz was referring to. Archives of Nethys is run by a fan, D20PFSRD can no longer use the CUP - even if they set up another site to do so. They are now a commercial user, irrespective of the content of any specific prospective publication.

Grand Lodge

Steve Geddes wrote:
Herald wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
... meaning some can use him, some can't.

>.>

Um that's not how the Community licence works. You meet the obligations or you don't. The licence doesn't specify who can or cannot use content, just the methodology of how to content.

It’s prohibited to use the CUP if you’re a commercial user or if Paizo considers you to be in the publishing business.

I think that’s what Gorbacz was referring to. Archives of Nethys is run by a fan, D20PFSRD can no longer use the CUP - even if they set up another site to do so. They are now a commercial user, irrespective of the content of any specific prospective publication.

I understand that what he was trying to say, but it's important to be factual.


I don’t understand the distinction you’re making. It seems to me that it’s correct to say the CUP does specify who can use certain content and who can’t (in addition to spelling out obligations you have if you wish to do so).

It seems to me that that clause is important precisely for that reason - your eligibility to use some of Paizo’s IP is not just about the product you’re producing but also about who you are. I can produce an adventure under the CUP even though Legendary Games would be prohibited from producing the exact same text.


It would probably clear up some confusion if d20pfsrd actually specified that the god in question isn't actually a real divine being at all, just a powerful arcane spellcaster (or possibly something else, depending on the setting? the point is they're an evil being who demands worship but cannot grant divine spells)


That would definitely help. The OP’s confusion is entirely understandable.


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He's not real! Damn! And I was on the sixth step!!


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captain yesterday wrote:
He's not real! Damn! And I was on the sixth step!!

It’s okay. That’s part of the sixth step.

The seventh step is realizing that Razmir was in your heart the whole time.

Grand Lodge

Steve Geddes wrote:

I don’t understand the distinction you’re making. It seems to me that it’s correct to say the CUP does specify who can use certain content and who can’t (in addition to spelling out obligations you have if you wish to do so).

It seems to me that that clause is important precisely for that reason - your eligibility to use some of Paizo’s IP is not just about the product you’re producing but also about who you are. I can produce an adventure under the CUP even though Legendary Games would be prohibited from producing the exact same text.

There are some legality issues that if you would like to discuss offline, I would be more than happy to discuss. But suffice it to say, there are legal issues that you blurring with your statement and are misleading.

Further more I would suggest that anyone who is reading this post find legal representation to review the CUP if they intend to publish in this fashion, this venue is simply this discussion.


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Ventnor wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
He's not real! Damn! And I was on the sixth step!!

It’s okay. That’s part of the sixth step.

The seventh step is realizing that Razmir was in your heart the whole time.

Really?! I gotta fire my cardiologist...


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quibblemuch wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
He's not real! Damn! And I was on the sixth step!!

It’s okay. That’s part of the sixth step.

The seventh step is realizing that Razmir was in your heart the whole time.

Really?! I gotta fire my cardiologist...

19th-level wizards can do some crazy stuff, yo.


Gorbacz wrote:

Not every archetype/feat/PrC was designed with PCs in mind. This PrC in particular, actually called Razmiran Priest (with name changed by d20pfsrd) was designed for a faction that's pretty much universally antagonists in the Golarion setting.

The "god" you are refering is originally the false god Razmir. The PrC makes little sense when the Golarion flavour is cut out but hey, that didn't stop d20pfsrd from listing it. You can find the original PrC, with no lore elements cut away, here.

Im pretty sure razmiran priest is the "alternate" name of the sorcerer archetype (which is broken), not the prestige class (which is horrible)


TurtleTamer wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

Not every archetype/feat/PrC was designed with PCs in mind. This PrC in particular, actually called Razmiran Priest (with name changed by d20pfsrd) was designed for a faction that's pretty much universally antagonists in the Golarion setting.

The "god" you are refering is originally the false god Razmir. The PrC makes little sense when the Golarion flavour is cut out but hey, that didn't stop d20pfsrd from listing it. You can find the original PrC, with no lore elements cut away, here.

Im pretty sure razmiran priest is the "alternate" name of the sorcerer archetype (which is broken), not the prestige class (which is horrible)

It's the name of both. Unique and distinct names are not a feature of Pathfinder. IIRC there are three swashbucklers, two evangelists and two different 'pact wizard' archetypes of the wizard class.

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