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Rope vs Manacles


Rules Questions


Could someone assist me please, what's the difference between tieing up your enemy with rope as opposed to manacles?


The DC to escape ropes binding you is 20 + the CMB of the person who tied you up, for manacles it's a set number - 30 for normal, 35 for masterwork manacles.

Silver Crusade

I'd also like to know that effect each has when they are in use. It seems a hog-tied person would be immobile and a manacled person could still use their move speed but couldn't cast spells or use weapons. But I couldn't find anywhere where those assumptions could be corroborated.

Are there rules about mechanics in place someplace?


Captain Temπ Ænaut Fugit wrote:

I'd also like to know that effect each has when they are in use. It seems a hog-tied person would be immobile and a manacled person could still use their move speed but couldn't cast spells or use weapons. But I couldn't find anywhere where those assumptions could be corroborated.

Are there rules about mechanics in place someplace?

Not particularly, no. If you find some, please share.


I read somewhere with manacles you are restricted to only an escape artist check and for rope you can choose between CMD or escape artist? Is that false?


I've never read that you can use CMD to escape bindings.

I think there was some discussion about the Shackle spell which related to the effects of manacles, but I can't remember what it came up with, and I can't find the discussion now.

Silver Crusade

I found the Shackle spell:

shackle:
Shackle
Source Adventurer's Guide pg. 99, Path of the Hellknight pg. 61
School conjuration (creation); Level arcanist 2, cleric/oracle 2, hunter 2, inquisitor 2, ranger 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, warpriest 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Effect one set of restraints; see text
Duration 1 hour/level
Saving Throw Reflex negates; see text; Spell Resistance no

You summon a set of Small or Medium masterwork restraints into being. When you cast this spell, you can choose whether the restraints are manacles or fetters (manacles specifically designed to fit around the ankles). You also summon the restraints’ key to your person; the Disable Device DC to open the locked restraints is equal to 15 + your caster level + the modifier of your primary casting ability score. Typically, the restraints appear in your hands. However, as part of the spell’s casting, you can make a melee touch attack against a creature; if you succeed and the creature then fails a Reflex saving throw against the spell’s DC, the locked fetters appear clasped on the creature or locked manacles clasp you and the creature together. You can instead have manacles restrain the target’s limbs in front of or behind it. If you cast the spell as a full-round action, you can make melee touch attacks against two creatures you can reach. If you succeed at both attacks and both creatures fail their Reflex saving throws, you can cause the set of manacles to bind the targets together.

As you increase in level, the restraints become stronger and you gain more control over them. If you are 6th level or higher, you can make the restraints mithral, or you can summon Tiny or Large restraints. If you are 12th level or higher, you can summon Diminutive or Huge restraints. If you use an emerald worth at least 1,000 gp as a material component while casting this spell, as a standard action once during its duration, you can affect any creature bound by these restraints as per dimensional anchor with a duration of 1 minute per caster level. If you are 18th level or higher and use an emerald worth at least 1,000 gp as a material component while casting this spell, the restraints’ hardness increases to 30, they have 60 hit points, and they can’t be broken with a successful Strength check. (The emerald must be worth at least 2,000 gp if you also wish to use the dimensional anchor effect described earlier.)

If you cast this spell before the duration of a previous casting has lapsed, you can create a new set of restraints or reset the previous spell’s duration. If you used an expensive material component during a previous casting, you must again use a component when creating new restraints or resetting the duration if you wish to maintain the special effect. You do not need to touch these previously created shackles to renew their duration, though you must be on the same plane as the shackles. When this spell ends, the restraints disappear, and any ongoing effects created by the spell end.

Now, I feel that a 'restrained' person can be shackled with their hands in tront of them or behind them, and that the the shackler can be connected to the shackled person. In the latter configuration, that would mean that the captured subject couldn't run away without trying to reposition the other person.

I guess that's something. Anything else?


According to the helpless condition, if you're "bound" then you're helpless.

But that's pretty vague. I'd assume that would apply to someone hog-tied, not if they're just handcuffed.


Matthew Downie wrote:
I'd assume that would apply to someone hog-tied, not if they're just handcuffed.

Or, as my players affectionately call it, "burrito'd"


Restraint is not a robust system in Pathfinder. I'm still unsure what happens in some scenarios. What if you're bound by two ropes, for example, or manacles plus rope around the wrists? Shouldn't fetters affect your speed differently based on the length of the connecting chain rather than simply apply a flat 0.5x multiplier to your speed? (Try hopping twice as fast as you can hustle some time.) All of this is the sort of thing GMs are for.


Also, if you were a very strong creature very expertly tied up with rope, can't you instead just make your Strength DC check to break the rope? What countermeasures do Grappler's take to make sure this doesn't happen?

Hemp Rope, iirc, has a burse DC of 23.
Silk Rope, 24
Spider Silk Rope, 25
Chain, 26
Mithril Chain, 27

There is no data for Adamantine Chain, whose brilliant idea was it to leave that off?

To acquire Adamantine Chain in PFS, I purchase a Dwarven Dorn Dergar, a weapon that consists mostly of a 10' long chain, +3000gp to get it in Adamantine. There is no burst DC for that, so I guess you use the normal Sunder/Damage unattended object rules. The rules don't exactly consider the possibility that you might Tie Up someone with chain, but the rules don't say you can't, either.

Also, what if you are the target of an Enlarge Person Spell? Your Adamantine Chain will grow with you, will it grow in Burst DC? You won't be able to let go of it, or the chain will shrink again. You will have to keep grappling and abusing the Ancient Black Dragon after you have tied it up, or you will find out whether that Dragon remembers your safe word!

I have been known to use Iron Rope, an inexpensive single use slotless wondrous item. The most formidable thing I Tied Up with it was a Rhemorhaz (?). It burned/melted through the resultant 1" iron bands in 1-2 rounds, juuust long enough to grab the special treasure and get out of Dodge.

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