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That works...but it wasn't made for that (Spells)


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller wrote:

I've seen very compelling arguments that this spell doesn't actually create water, it only stills existing water. The two primary arguments are "It's Abjuration, not Conjuration" and "It's a more reasonable reading".

The first line would just be misleading flavor text, and mean "a bubble inside of which all water is calm" instead of "Surprise! Underwater combat!".

I'm not sure I'd call that a particularly compelling argument, though. The magic school might be a good argument, but I don't really think stilling existing water is a more reasonable reading since it looks pretty clear to me that it would still involve at least a surrounding bubble of rippling water even if cast far from any water source. It's definitely weird as written.


Contingent dimensional door/teleport to avoid one of my female characters getting pregnant because everyone in that campaing (we were all friends) wanted to 'taint' my poor girl. You can all guess the condition.

Next time I'll be the one who's going to cast a contingent fireball on a fire inmune npc and then shout "Yippee ki-yay!" the very moment the condition is met.

Shadow Lodge

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Katisha wrote:
Going to be fighting Harpies in your future? other sonic attacks? Buy a Potion of blindness/deafness, and Drink it. As the caster (drinker) you can dismiss the spell any time you want, and in the mean time you can't hear the Harpies (or anything else for that mater...).

Thunderstone is a much cheaper way


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Bill Dunn wrote:
I'm not sure I'd call that a particularly compelling argument, though. The magic school might be a good argument, but I don't really think stilling existing water is a more reasonable reading since it looks pretty clear to me that it would still involve at least a surrounding bubble of rippling water even if cast far from any water source. It's definitely weird as written.

"More reasonable regarding what is to be expected from a spell of that grade, allowing fewer exploits and causing fewer questions like 'Can I swim upwards?'".

I admit it's also less fun, but it's not my kind of cheese (and most of all, if I cheese - and I see this as cheese - I'm direct and open about it).


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Jeraa wrote:
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Mathmuse wrote:
Using Magic Missile to pop a set of Mirror Images is such a clever idea that Paizo banned it.

Right, and what was ever the point of that? Yes, it's using a 1st level spell to counter a 2nd level spell, but it requires you to have that exact spell ready (and to have enough missiles to pop all the images). Never struck me as unbalanced; if anything, the opposite. Mirror Image is really powerful for a 2nd level spell.

Doug M.

Well first of all, magic missile couldn't target the images anyway. It only targets creatures, and the images aren't creatures.

Secondly, nothing in the mirror image spell says the images are directly targetable (unlike in 3.5 D&D, when that was specifically called out). Instead, you attack normally and there is a chance the image is hit instead.

And lastly, mirror image says anything that doesn't require an attack roll automatically hits the creature and does not destroy any figments.

So unless the wording of the spell changed between printings of Pathfinder, nothing about either spell would even allow magic missile as a possibility of removing images.

These are my least favorite posts on paizo. Rules lawyering to the extreme.

D&D was meant to let you explore your fantasies in a shared reality. The rules were created to give you a framework to make it real and challenging. You were always intended to make them work for you and your group to have fun. They were never intended to answer everything for you. In most cases there is no right answer.

This kind of ultra-literal interpretation of the rules is a corruption. "Oh it says in the spell it works this way and the grammar says this and the effect and the faq and the..." Uh huh. PFS play encourages this, because people are playing under any number of DMs, and there needs to be consistency. People must believe in a rules god, and that god is Paizo, and Paizo said the following exact things, therefore you must do...x.

Yeah, who cares.

If a spellcaster has 4 mirror images plus them, and a player's wizard wants to hit all 5 with magic missile? Yeah, I'm going to let them. Why? Because I'm reasonable and don't perform a grammar study with a rules lawyer to see if it works. The spell is fooling him from identifying the real one. Why can magic missile completely defeat that? Doesn't seem rational to me. I'm going to go with my gut. Next encounter.

Everyone having fun? Good.


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The DM of wrote:
The spell is fooling him from identifying the real one. Why can magic missile completely defeat that? Doesn't seem rational to me.

Does Mirror Image also block Charm Person and such spells in your game? Because they use the same magical homing "point out target, hit target" mechanism.

Shadow Lodge

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The DM of wrote:
Uh huh. PFS play encourages this, because people are playing under any number of DMs, and there needs to be consistency. People must believe in a rules god, and that god is Paizo, and Paizo said the following exact things, therefore you must do...x.

That kind of grammar break down leads to anything but consistency or accuracy in the rules. 90+% of pfs is aware of that as opposed to 95% of general role players.


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The DM of wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Mathmuse wrote:
Using Magic Missile to pop a set of Mirror Images is such a clever idea that Paizo banned it.

Right, and what was ever the point of that? Yes, it's using a 1st level spell to counter a 2nd level spell, but it requires you to have that exact spell ready (and to have enough missiles to pop all the images). Never struck me as unbalanced; if anything, the opposite. Mirror Image is really powerful for a 2nd level spell.

Doug M.

Well first of all, magic missile couldn't target the images anyway. It only targets creatures, and the images aren't creatures.

Secondly, nothing in the mirror image spell says the images are directly targetable (unlike in 3.5 D&D, when that was specifically called out). Instead, you attack normally and there is a chance the image is hit instead.

And lastly, mirror image says anything that doesn't require an attack roll automatically hits the creature and does not destroy any figments.

So unless the wording of the spell changed between printings of Pathfinder, nothing about either spell would even allow magic missile as a possibility of removing images.

These are my least favorite posts on paizo. Rules lawyering to the extreme.

D&D was meant to let you explore your fantasies in a shared reality. The rules were created to give you a framework to make it real and challenging. You were always intended to make them work for you and your group to have fun. They were never intended to answer everything for you. In most cases there is no right answer.

This kind of ultra-literal interpretation of the rules is a corruption. "Oh it says in the spell it works this way and the grammar says this and the effect and the faq and the..." Uh huh. PFS play encourages this, because people are playing under any number of DMs, and there needs to be consistency. People must believe in a rules god, and that god is Paizo, and Paizo said the following exact things,...

It's not extreme. It's very precise and correct, and as for who cares, that would be those who wish to play by the rules, and fun is subjective.

I get that you may be more loose with the rules, but that does not make others wrong.


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'Ere now! Wot's all this then?


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William Werminster wrote:

Contingent dimensional door/teleport to avoid one of my female characters getting pregnant because everyone in that campaing (we were all friends) wanted to 'taint' my poor girl. You can all guess the condition.

Next time I'll be the one who's going to cast a contingent fireball on a fire inmune npc and then shout "Yippee ki-yay!" the very moment the condition is met.

This is my periodic reminder that contingency can only affect the caster, not others.


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Mirror Image now creates what looks like a pillar of melting crayons. You cannot pick out a single target to cast the spell at.
It's a bad example.

Animate dead can get a slain comrade to walk themselves out of enemy territory. They will only fight or walk, so if you want them to carry anything, put a backpack on them.

Shadow Lodge

Mirror Image: Can I use magic missile to destroy one or more images from a mirror image spell?

No. Magic missile targets a creature and does not require an attack roll, so it bypasses all the images and always hits the real creature.
posted February 2012 | back to top

Scarab Sages

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Goth Guru wrote:

...snipping ....

Animate dead can get a slain comrade to walk themselves out of enemy territory. They will only fight or walk, so if you want them to carry anything, put a backpack on them.

animate dead creates Zombies or Skeletons ... the first line in the spell reads -

This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) that obey your spoken commands. - so I would think if you commanded them to carry something - they would.

After all, it's it the classic Voodoo Zombie that "works in the field" - sort of an Undead Slave.

Another possible problem of using Raise Dead on comrades is the note in the spell that reads (last paragraph):
"A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age."

So if you "Animate" your friends, it's going to take a Resurrection to bring them back (a 7th level spell, so a 13th level Cleric... and a lot more money)

Shadow Lodge

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Disguise self on a scouting mission. Look like who or whatever you're invading. The other goblins/kobolds are more likely to question you. Bluff and a few points in linguistics will at least let your party hear that you're in trouble.

Share language as a touch spell. Either run up to someone you can't understand and poke them with it (you now know common) to be diplomanced or if you have a suggestion/ language dependant happy caster they're now vulnerable to their spells.

The Exchange

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A few more examples of spells used in non-standard ways:

spider climb... to ride on the bottom of a flying carpet, while someone else uses the top.

Vanish... to let your prone friend stand up and get away from the monster without suffering AOOs....

Light... used to signal timing on something. "Here's a light spell on a stone. Wait till it goes out, then..." and when you are ready for her to do "it", cast the light again, and the first one goes out.

Shadow Lodge

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Stone shape a 1 inch thick battledome with arrow slits

Confused friend? Summon a monster to fight them.

c c c c combo breaker.

Resist energy (fire) + fireball.

Feather step the party. Stone call. Profit.

The Exchange

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I like cantrips/orisons:

Create Water - useful for cleaning, and can expose some otherwise hard-to-find secrets entries/pits easily. Also useful for locating Invisible creatures (like packets of powder - YMMV), and putting fires out. Cast it a bunch and flood a room - but come back the next day and it's all gone!

Detect spells used thru doors and walls less than 1' thick stone. Does the room on the other side of the door contain undead/magic/evil/marmots (ok, maybe not marmots...)

Ray of Frost - Frosted mugs in the local tavern. Ice in your drink... Need to move something heavy? Splash water on the floor and zap! some into an Ice slide to make it easier to slide.

Disrupt Undead - Is that body across the way a undead creature? Pling it from here and see.

Prestidigitation - SO MANY USES! No one can ever call you, or your willing allies, dirty again. And, like many illusion spells, only limited by the user's imagination. Need to keep your friends from

spoilered:
reading EXPLOSIVE RUNES!!!
? Just soil them and relax. Unless your friends have a fetish about cleaning things....

message - order drinks across a (loud!) tavern...


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Buba Casanunda wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:

...snipping ....

Animate dead can get a slain comrade to walk themselves out of enemy territory. They will only fight or walk, so if you want them to carry anything, put a backpack on them.

animate dead creates Zombies or Skeletons ... the first line in the spell reads -

This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) that obey your spoken commands. - so I would think if you commanded them to carry something - they would.

After all, it's it the classic Voodoo Zombie that "works in the field" - sort of an Undead Slave.

Another possible problem of using Raise Dead on comrades is the note in the spell that reads (last paragraph):
"A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age."

So if you "Animate" your friends, it's going to take a Resurrection to bring them back (a 7th level spell, so a 13th level Cleric... and a lot more money)

The next line in animate dead tells you you can only get them to follow or stand and fight. It really looks like an afterthought.

You are correct that it takes more to raise them after you put them down again.

About raise dead. Make whole possibly readies a dead body for raise dead. A corpse is an object, and raise dead requires the body to be intact. If you have raise dead and craft miscellaneous magic, you can make raise dead salve. I think this will bring the dead person right back in one round.


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Whoever wrote Restore Corpse ("The new flesh is somewhat rotted and not fit for eating.") forgot Purify Food and Drink was a spell. Even if it didn't exist, it's still infinite hide/leather.

This isn't much of a money machine with mundane meat. Cattle costs 50 a head, 1st level spell costs 10 GP and every orison (hitting a cubic foot of material) costs 5 GP. Bing tells me smaller beef cows are 3/4 feet tall and 5 feet long. If you assume half the height is meat and not just leg/head, you need 10 castings to restore the main body of a small cow (Anything less than what you'd get paid casting the spells isn't much of a money maker). I'm sure there's a specific species it's great for.

Incidentally, Purify Food and Drink would likely extend the shelf-life of certain foods, most notably milk, drastically after purification. Pasteurization was only discovered in 1864 (When Abraham Lincoln was running for President) and super/ultra/flash pasteurization is only possible with pressure cookers (the required temperature would otherwise evaporate it), which incidentally only got produced as more than a novelty the same year, so I doubt either exists in typical fantasy worlds. Milk that has been flash pasteurized tastes terrible compared to normal pasteurization .


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To steal two ideas here and combine:

Fire resistance + Fire Trap on 10 small pouches strapped to your chest and all opened at once with a handful of strings as a free action + fireball = non-suicide bomber

All your friends could have a similar non-suicide vest, and you could potentially add a delayed blast fireball to this as well.

That's basically enough fire damage to kill even a Balor!!!


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A Balor? Not sure why you'd pick a fire-immune creature as your example...


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The DM of wrote:
That's basically enough fire damage to kill even a Balor!!!

Why would it kill a Balor, if you are protected by simple fire resistance? If it can kill a Balor, we're back in suicide bomber territory.

But so that I actually add something to the conversation:
Illusory Script
It's apparently meant to convey secret messages, but the true boon is that anyone who isn't on the "allowed to read this" list gets hit by a suggestion. The script lasts for days, and the "suggested" course of action can take up to half an hour.

Sure, it costs 50 gold to cast it, but there are enough ways around that. Now imagine someone with an illusory "kick me" script on their back, and since they are amongst those "able to read the true message", they just see "Brave, Strong and Fair" when they read it.

Or, you know, put a "do not disturb" on the door before you beat up the one behind it*.

* that is, the one behind the door. Not the one behind the "Brave, Strong and Fair" prank.


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I have a watersinger undine bard, has that one alt racial trait that gives watersense. I use create water to make a puddle that is 30' radius centered on me that's a few inches deep, use water song to control it (by the time I'm high enough level to create that much water in a single casting, I can also control that much water), and basically every round I have a mass of water plop up next to whomever I want it to attack, do the full round slam attacks, have it sit there for flanking purposes, if they decide to attack it, the blob pops like a water balloon, but just rejoins the puddle so on my next turn it just regrows. On top of this, because I'm in contact with a body of water, I have blindsense in regard to anything else also in contact with the puddle, meaning unless you are also floating you can't sneak up on me with invisibility!

And I mean, yes this is obviously how the archetype was intended to be used, but I doubt create water was ever supposed to effectively create a battlefield (in fact, I doubt specific usage was considered in creation of the archetype, as the wording mostly discusses using water-created objects to attack, but if I'm controlling a puddle that everyone is standing in I can effectively attack from anywhere in my radius).


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Have 1 of the most expensive mundane alchemical item. Full pouch. Alchemical tinkering! Suddenly you have every alchemical item ever.

Have some doses of alchemical pheromones for something generic, like humanoid (human), and with alchemical tinkering you suddenly have alchemical pheromones for whatever that thing over there is! Also, for the suggestion variant, you can also use this to alter what the suggestion is for the situation, meaning a useful tool for when you can manage to plan ahead all of a sudden becomes an extremely flexible, versatile tool that acts as a catch all for most situations!

I had all kinds of fun with that spell on an eldritch scoundrel rogue awhile back, and I also happened to be in a party with an alchemist whose player had more or less memorized the alchemical items sections on d20srd, so if I had an idea, I'd ask him what could do it, have him hand over something of equivalent value if he didn't have it on him and BAM! now we've got it! (of course this might be more using an underutilized spell to maximum potential than unintended uses, but still!)

Scarab Sages

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Goth Guru wrote:
Buba Casanunda wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:

...snipping ....

Animate dead can get a slain comrade to walk themselves out of enemy territory. They will only fight or walk, so if you want them to carry anything, put a backpack on them.

animate dead creates Zombies or Skeletons ... the first line in the spell reads -

This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) that obey your spoken commands. - so I would think if you commanded them to carry something - they would.

After all, it's it the classic Voodoo Zombie that "works in the field" - sort of an Undead Slave.

Another possible problem of using Raise Dead on comrades is the note in the spell that reads (last paragraph):
"A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age."

So if you "Animate" your friends, it's going to take a Resurrection to bring them back (a 7th level spell, so a 13th level Cleric... and a lot more money)

The next line in animate dead tells you you can only get them to follow or stand and fight. It really looks like an afterthought.

You are correct that it takes more to raise them after you put them down again.

About raise dead. Make whole possibly readies a dead body for raise dead. A corpse is an object, and raise dead requires the body to be intact. If you have raise dead and craft miscellaneous magic, you can make raise dead salve. I think this will bring the dead person right back in one round.

if the second line/paragraph were exclusive, then it would be impossible to command undead to "attack those adventurers my undead minions!" - as the only commands the creator would be able to give would be:

a) "follow me",
or
b) "remain in (an area) and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the (area)".

so...
a) "follow me my Minions!"
b) "stay here and attack any humans who enter!... WHAT ARE YOU DOING! NOT ME YOU MINDLESS ARRRRRGH!"

Yet created undead in much of cannon are often commanded by their creator to do things other than just "follow" or "attack anyone entering"... so, IMHO, the second line/paragraph is NOT an exclusive list and other commands can be given... but I guess YMMV.

Text of Animate Dead:

This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies that obey your spoken commands.

The undead can be made to follow you, or they can be made to remain in an area and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the place. They remain animated until they are destroyed. A destroyed skeleton or zombie can't be animated again.

Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit.

Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.

Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a physical anatomy.

Shadow Lodge

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Animate dead +bag of holding. You can stack them in there like cordwood, they don't need to breathe. Just dump them out and poof, instant army.

Shadow Lodge

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Tensors floating mount:

Bit of table variation on how this works , but if the tensors floating disk movement is faster than the fighter, have him hop on and surf to victory.

Shadow Lodge

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Buba Casanunda wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:

...snipping ....

Animate dead can get a slain comrade to walk themselves out of enemy territory. They will only fight or walk, so if you want them to carry anything, put a backpack on them.

animate dead creates Zombies or Skeletons ... the first line in the spell reads -

This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) that obey your spoken commands. - so I would think if you commanded them to carry something - they would.

After all, it's it the classic Voodoo Zombie that "works in the field" - sort of an Undead Slave.

Another possible problem of using Raise Dead on comrades is the note in the spell that reads (last paragraph):
"A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age."

So if you "Animate" your friends, it's going to take a Resurrection to bring them back (a 7th level spell, so a 13th level Cleric... and a lot more money)

Cut off some hair before casting Animate Dead and you only need 1,000gp and a 7th level Druid to cast reincarnate...

Shadow Lodge

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Bluff check "See you back at the bar"

Cast vanish or invisibility on the paralyzed ally


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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Tensors floating mount:

Bit of table variation on how this works , but if the tensors floating disk movement is faster than the fighter, have him hop on and surf to victory.

I always thought it was weird you couldn't direct it to go a certain direction while sitting on it.

Edit: Nothing complex. Just go that way. *points*


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I remember in old editions people would cast Floating Disk and Levitate, then have someone sit on the Floating Disk and push them forwards with a pole, for low-level flight.

Create Pit has uses other than dropping enemies in; a hiding place, climbing under obstacles, etc. (Expect table variance in whether you can make a pit under a locked door.)


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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Bluff check "See you back at the bar"

Cast vanish or invisibility on the paralyzed ally

Lol! I completely misread that! I thought you said;

Bluff check "See you back at the bar"

Cast vanish or invisibility on yourself while next to the paralyzed ally

Sovereign Court

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Here's a gimmick with vanish from a wand, and invisibility. I pull it with a couple different PCs... Stand behind/near the frontline PC and tap her with the wand right after her turn (may need to delay till right after the Melee to set the Initiative order working right). Repeat each round. If you can cast invisibility before starting this cycle, start by casting invisibility on yourself, then vanish the Melee. Works great on the party Rogue...

Monsters see the Melee/Rogue blink in (first swing is from invisibility, so the target is flatfooted and the attack is at +2 to hit), take a full attack and then blink out before anyone else gets an action. Cost is one 1st level wand charge each combat round. Heck, if you're running the Melee guy, pick up the want yourself and see if the party Bard will do this while she sings, ...

I actually have a Dog-rider that does this with potions of invisibility for PC and it looks like the monsters are fighting a Blink Dog... why is the dog wearing a saddle?

Shadow Lodge

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Suggestion: Hold out a bag of coins. I suggest you take these and go to the bar.

Dark Archive

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Bluff check "See you back at the bar"

Cast vanish or invisibility on the paralyzed ally

I've seen a form of this when I GMed a scenario in PFS. They were ambushed by people they actually didn't want to fight (misguided Neutrals). They won initiative, the Bluff specialist shouted "Quickly, teleport us outta here!", and the second guy then casted Invisibility Sphere...

My mooks lacked both Sense Motive and Spellcraft...


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Vanish also works to perform a combat maneuver without taking an AoO.

A weapon doing cold damage is handy when you're trying to put out fires; at the very least its not likely to be damaged by the fire when you're trying to cut out burning material, and it may help directly.

You can build up a fair bit of speed/force with a levitating ram, even if there are no 18 strength goons in the party.


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Snowball lets you be able to make yourself a snow cone even in the tropics from first level, or possibly let you do that, due to a recent rewrite.

Iron Stake means that if you're really desperate you can get yourself an improvised cold iron weapon. Which is good, because Create Armaments can't actually create any Cold Iron weaponry for you if you really need it.

Mathmuse wrote:
My Life Is In Ruins wrote:
Desperate Weapon makes books(spellbooks) and wands deadly weapons (who needs Weaponwand unless you have a magical weapon). So now a wand doesn't provoke AND can do 1d6P dmg as a weapon. Apply Magic Weapon if you need a bonus to a touch atk or melee atk with the wand.

Desperate Weapon creates a new object, so it cannot be applied to an existing object like a wand. Furthermore, the created object cannot be used like a real object, so a Desparate Weapon tankard cannot hold a drink.

But it would be great at creating a decoy object. You have to keep holding the fake, though, or it disappears. Send the real Maltese Falcon off with your assistant and conjure a desperate weapon that looks just like it to lure away the pursuers. Or conjure a full coin purse to pretend to be rich.

Indeed, the only spell offhand that I can recall that would come close to enabling shanking someone with a wand would be casting something like Peasant Armaments. Since if a butter knife can get dagger stats, at least some of the more substantial wands should be capable of something. Or one could potentially just make thicker wands if crafting them one's self.

Mathmuse wrote:
One trick might be too obvious for this thread: Heroism for downtime skill checks. My bloodrager uses it to gain +2 morale bonus on Craft skill checks whenever she forges something difficult like adamantine weapons. She has to use multiple Heroism spells per day to cover all her hours of crafting. At 12th level, she could work on her toughest project 4 hours a day with two Heroisms; at 13th level she could work all 8 hours with four Heroisms. This stacks with the +2 circumstance bonus from masterwork tools and the +5 luck bonus from Crafter's Fortune.

I did the same thing with Tears to Wine, figuring you'd naturally want to stop for a drink every now and then over the course of 8 hours anyway. Kinda kicking myself now for not catching that and combining them.

Granted, Tears to Wine did let me share that buff which a whole bunch of assistants so that they could better Aid Another to boost my chest result.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

wall of stone NPC protection: don't wall the bad guys in. Wall them out. No save for you.

Mage armor on pets and monks. Its not just for wizards.

Purify food and drink refrigerator storage.

Unless for the latter you mean actually crafting a custom wondrous item, I'm not sure if those are things the spells aren't supposed to do. Well, other than the bit about Wall of Stone, the Wall spells are definitely supposed to do defensive and offensive things, sometimes either-or, sometimes both-and.

Although... The existence of the Preserve spell suggests that maybe someone did forget about that use of Purify Food and Drink. Although, to be fair, people get it on their spell list that aren't able to cast Purify Food and Drink.

Trinam wrote:

The adventurer's restroom.

Dig a hole, put food at the bottom, do business, purify food and drink.

Repeat as necessary.

I believe technically you only need to make sure there's water in there. Which most forms of adventurer conveniently also tend to provide when they void their waste. Take that contaminated water and remove all the urea and fiber and bacteria and you just get water.

I suppose it's possible you'd need to make sure there was a notable quantity of water in there, say a couple of gallons and in the worst cases you'd need to actually mechanically separate certain substances into the water so that they dissolve or are suspended in it.

...I'm sure there's some joke here about hardline GMs and using blenders as chamberpots that could be made...

My Life Is In Ruins wrote:

lol... Purify Food and Drink just means you can safely eat it, that's it. Doesn't improve nutritional quality, taste, or smell. Nor does it chill the food.

Rabbits notoriously skip the spell.

yall are being silly, I know.

That is merely one interpretation, and it's a pretty hardline one at that.

I say that it doesn't really make sense to call water with human or animal waste in it purified in any sense of the word if there's still human or animal waste floating in it.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I want to point out that if you interpret magic missile being able to target separate images, wouldn't that mean that if you wanted to do damage to person having mirror image on, you would have to roll whether you pick correct target for magic missiles instead of them auto hitting? <_<

And isn't most of spell interpretations because nobody is really sure what spells do? Like, I've seen confusion about whether dimension door looks any different from teleport like is it just them disappearing or do they literally open a door they step through. That mirror image thing seems like same thing since some people think its just several still images that repeat your actions while others think its reflections surrounding you.

I much prefer leaving spells up to interpretation and it makes sense that way, that way different wizards can do same spell in way that look different to each caster, that said though, I think you need to be logically consistent with way you apply the rules to gameplay since we aren't really playing calvinball here.


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Coidzor wrote:
...Tears to Wine...

Wow. I might have heard of that spell before (sounds familiar) but I had no idea it was... That. :(

At 15th level for some, for only costing a 1st level spell, you gain a flat +10 bonus to all Int and Wis spells? So, things like Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, all Profession and all Craft and all Knowledge checks? (few others too)
At least it only lasts rounds per level, right? Nope. 10 min per level...
And its an Enhancement bonus to a Skill check, wich is kinda rare so it should stack with most things :(
So, 1 potion, right? This is personal only?
Ya... about that, this does not affect only a single potion, but rather 3.2 GALLONS OF BRAIN JUICE PER CL.. O.O

So, an Alchemist (Mindchemist) takes this, and the Acute Senses extract (+30 perception, sadly doesn't stack, but included anyways) then drinks a Grand Cognatogen.
Add in +6 Int/Wis headband and, base 16 int/Wis as an arbitrary number, so that makes 30 Int, 28 Wis.
Assuming level 16 and full ranks/Class Skills, that is something like:
Perception: 58
Sense Motive: 38
Spellcraft: 39
All/Any Professions and Crafts: 39
All/Any Knowledge checks: 49

And that is only with 2 spells :P
You could also add Eternal Potion to that as well, if desired.
Its not game breaking or anything, rather I am just suprised at the potential for exceptionally high numbers that this very-easy-to-use spell could allow you to get :P And for some rather important skills, like Perception, Sense Motive Crafting, Knowledges or Spellcraft, and all that from a 1st-2nd lvl spell for an extended duration :/
edit: heck. +10 Perception/Sense Motive for the entire party lasting 10 min/lvl for only a first level spell is a massive steal for that alone... Let the Blood of your enemies drive you forward >:D

AN UNUSUAL USE FOR THIS?
Give it to the party Fighter and have him actually be smart for a change >_>
Sadly only for a while ^_^


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Tensors floating mount:

Bit of table variation on how this works , but if the tensors floating disk movement is faster than the fighter, have him hop on and surf to victory.

Hey, Buddy, can I ask where you got your forbidden Intellectual Property spells?

The Fun Constable wrote:
'Ere now! Wot's all this then?

Oh, crap! It's the FEDS! CHEESE IT! Runs scrambling away like a cartoon bat out of hell

Shadow Lodge

The IP Burglar wrote:


Hey, Buddy, can I ask where you got your forbidden Intellectual Property spells?

How do you think that hand got off of vecna? *picks teeth with claw*


Matthew Downie wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Every time I see someone suggesting ray of frost to make a refrigerator. People, that's what purify food and drink is for.
What, never felt the need for a cold beer?

Maybe he's English.


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My Life Is In Ruins wrote:
Applying Glyph of Warding to a ring. Yes, it's a portal albeit a tiny one and slipping the ring on enters the portal.

Fire Trap on a Flask of Alchemist Fire.


One time, in a 1st Edition Campaign, we were being attacked by Dinosaurs, and the Magic User started casting Flavor Cantrips on each of us so we all tasted like Chief Wiggum's Guatamalan Insanity Peppers.

Prestigitation isn't that powerful any more, but I did use it once to chase down a thief who tried to lose us in a crowd: I turned him blue.


Gobo Horde wrote:
Coidzor wrote:
...Tears to Wine...

Wow. I might have heard of that spell before (sounds familiar) but I had no idea it was... That. :(

At 15th level for some, for only costing a 1st level spell, you gain a flat +10 bonus to all Int and Wis spells? So, things like Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, all Profession and all Craft and all Knowledge checks? (few others too)
At least it only lasts rounds per level, right? Nope. 10 min per level...
And its an Enhancement bonus to a Skill check, wich is kinda rare so it should stack with most things :(
So, 1 potion, right? This is personal only?
Ya... about that, this does not affect only a single potion, but rather 3.2 GALLONS OF BRAIN JUICE PER CL.. O.O

Depending upon how your table interprets Create Water and a few other places in the rules, 1 cubic foot of liquid could very well equal 8 gallons, so that it's 4 gallons per CL.

Shadow Lodge

Tears to Wine works on liquids that aren't exactly water. Like oil. Or melted wax. A friend tried to argue he could use it on lava, but the whole table shot that down(despite it being funny).


a magic trap of ghost sound on a store to make a noise when someone is at the door similar to what we have on convience stores.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Tears to Wine works on liquids that aren't exactly water. Like oil. Or melted wax. A friend tried to argue he could use it on lava, but the whole table shot that down(despite it being funny).

Where are you getting that it doesn't work on water? The target is liquid (liquid water is a liquid) and the text says that it includes contaminated liquids, which implies clean liquids are viable options.


Paradozen wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Tears to Wine works on liquids that aren't exactly water. Like oil. Or melted wax. A friend tried to argue he could use it on lava, but the whole table shot that down(despite it being funny).
Where are you getting that it doesn't work on water? The target is liquid (liquid water is a liquid) and the text says that it includes contaminated liquids, which implies clean liquids are viable options.

I believe he was it works on other liquids in addition to water, not that it works on other liquids with the exclusion of water. That's just my interpretation though, I could be wrong.

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