Playing an Oozemorph: The mega(slimy) thread.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Your speed would stay the same, but otherwise it's accurate.

[graystone]

PhD. Okkam wrote:

Nobody did build Oozemorph with an optimization attempt?

We don't even know it it can move or what abilities it keeps from it's starting race so we can't even shoot for viability let alone optimizability.

[graystone]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Am I understanding how this works right, that if you are an oozemorph in human form wearing plate armor with a weapon and shield, that when you revert to ooze form that stuff will be absorbed and your speed will go from 20 to 30? But when you shift back into human (or whatever) form you will be wearing them again?

Not 100% sure items are absorbed and completely unsure what speed a blob form has. so 20' to n/a'... Until an FAQ/errata comes out, the oozemorph is little more than morphic weapons in a bucket.

[Rhedyn]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Am I understanding how this works right, that if you are an oozemorph in human form wearing plate armor with a weapon and shield, that when you revert to ooze form that stuff will be absorbed and your speed will go from 20 to 30? But when you shift back into human (or whatever) form you will be wearing them again?

That does seem like an effective scout, but if your stuff falls off when you're oozy, it seems like you'd spend a lot of time getting dressed.

Well, I wouldn't use any weapon except range and morphic weapons.

The most RAW "functional" interpretation is that Oozeform alters your base form and is a Polymorph effect. It just ignores the form general rules in Polymorph because there is no form. So items would meld into you.

The interpretation I advocate for because it is the most consistent, is that Oozeform is not part of Fluidic body, not SU, and not a Polymorph effect. I would elect to read "This is a Polymorph effect." as referring to the ability in general and that Oozeform is not an ability but an affliction that you gain taking the class thus it alters your base form. In this reading, your items do pop off in oozeform, but not when going to beast shape from alterself. Which is where the scouting comes in.

The most RAW reading is that you swap out everything per the polymorph general rules with a form that is undefined and the game pauses until the GM figures something out.

[graystone]

Rhedyn wrote:

Oozeform is not part of Fluidic body

That's how it should be along with actual stats for it. Sadly it's all together, making teaching druidic a way to get rid it oozeform. [and that turning into a blob in an antimagic field gets turned off in an antimagic field as it's a SU ability so instead you turn into your old race...]

Rhedyn wrote:

The most RAW reading is that you swap out everything per the polymorph general rules with a form that is undefined and the game pauses until the GM figures something out.

More likely, the DM passes on allowing the archetype until the FAQ/errata comes out that allows it to make sense. :P

[Corpi Hoppins]

Rhedyn wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Am I understanding how this works right, that if you are an oozemorph in human form wearing plate armor with a weapon and shield, that when you revert to ooze form that stuff will be absorbed and your speed will go from 20 to 30? But when you shift back into human (or whatever) form you will be wearing them again?

That does seem like an effective scout, but if your stuff falls off when you're oozy, it seems like you'd spend a lot of time getting dressed.

Well, I wouldn't use any weapon except range and morphic weapons.

The most RAW "functional" interpretation is that Oozeform alters your base form and is a Polymorph effect. It just ignores the form general rules in Polymorph because there is no form. So items would meld into you.

The interpretation I advocate for because it is the most consistent, is that Oozeform is not part of Fluidic body, not SU, and not a Polymorph effect. I would elect to read "This is a Polymorph effect." as referring to the ability in general and that Oozeform is not an ability but an affliction that you gain taking the class thus it alters your base form. In this reading, your items do pop off in oozeform, but not when going to beast shape from alterself. Which is where the scouting comes in.

The most RAW reading is that you swap out everything per the polymorph general rules with a form that is undefined and the game pauses until the GM figures something out.

From how it’s worded with the placement of the mention of “this is treated as a polymorph” it seems outside of the actual shifts from the ooze form that are below that the unconscious or anti magic zone effects are treated as polymorph effects.

[Rhedyn]

An anti-magi field would normally suppress an SU Polymorph effect oozeform. But it doesn't.

So either oozeform is the only SU ability that works in an anti-magic field or it's not an ability.

[Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller]

Rosc wrote:

Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

That's probably coming in Ultimate Ooziness.

Blood of the Ooze

Secret of the Ooze

Ooze Anthology

[graystone]

Rhedyn wrote:

So either oozeform is the only SU ability that works in an anti-magic field or it's not an ability.

Or the entire ability gets turned off because it's worded so badly, which is the current way it's written. It's a fact that the animagic wording is inside the SU ability, so it never has the opportunity to activate as it turns off with the SU ability in an antimagic field...

All things that go away if oozeform was it's own EX ability...

[Rhedyn]

graystone wrote:

Rhedyn wrote:

So either oozeform is the only SU ability that works in an anti-magic field or it's not an ability.

Or the entire ability gets turned off because it's worded so badly, which is the current way it's written. It's a fact that the animagic wording is inside the SU ability, so it never has the opportunity to activate as it turns off with the SU ability in an antimagic field...

All things that go away if oozeform was it's own EX ability...

I think we can safely say the "specifics over general" clause applies here. No matter what, oozeform works in an anti-magic field.

If this was computer code, I might agree with the ambiguity here. But oozeform is specified to work in an anti-magic field. That supersedes SU abilities turning off in an anti-magic field.

I think that's weird though, which is why I advocate that Oozeform is not an ability.

[Corpi Hoppins]

Rhedyn wrote:

An anti-magi field would normally suppress an SU Polymorph effect oozeform. But it doesn't.

So either oozeform is the only SU ability that works in an anti-magic field or it's not an ability.

I think the oozeform description is a statement of what you are rather than an ability like the rest of the fluid body description. Also I’ve done a session as an oozemorph, I’d do more but it’s finals time so our games are on pause, but one great combination is to work with the resident strong man and ride in his bag. He can move you both into combat range and you can strike from his bag. It really helps with getting around town without drawing to many eyes early on when your shifts are more limited.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller wrote:

Rosc wrote:

Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

That's probably coming in Ultimate Ooziness.

Blood of the Ooze

Secret of the Ooze

Ooze Anthology

Ooze on First?

Ooze line is it, anyways?

[Rosc]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Ooze line is it, anyways?

Welcome to the archetype where your movement speed is made up and your items don't matter.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Rosc wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Ooze line is it, anyways?

Welcome to the archetype where your movement speed is made up and your items don't matter.

This reference just made me ooze it all.

Now we need an all Oozemorph party with Perform (Comedy) (or Profession [Comedian]) and to share the same names of a few certain individuals...

[Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller]

I was trying to go with typical paizo titles (English isn't my native language, so I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to pop culture references)...
So I'll just get them out of my system.
Oozes of the Inner Sea,
Oozes revisited.
Oozes unleashed.
We be oozes.
Path of the Ooze.

Oozefinder

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Ooze can it be blurbling at my door?
Go 'way, don't puddle here no more
Can't you see that it's late at night?
I'm very tired, and I'm not feeling right
All I wish is to be alone;
Stay away, don't you invade my home
Best off if you blorp outside
Don't come in, I'll only throw alkali...

[nighttree]

Corpi Hoppins wrote:

I think the oozeform description is a statement of what you are rather than an ability like the rest of the fluid body description. Also I’ve done a session as an oozemorph, I’d do more but it’s finals time so our games are on pause, but one great combination is to work with the resident strong man and ride in his bag. He can move you both into combat range and you can strike from his bag. It really helps with getting around town without drawing to many eyes early on when your shifts are more limited.

Using a liberal dose of RAI I would have to agree. By my reading...the race you pick simply fill's out the specifics (movement, ability scores, etc...etc...). It's a way of customizing your specific Oozeness. You need never actually adopt that racial form again, as it's not your actual form anyway....it's just providing the framework for your specific Ooze form.

EDIT: In fact I think that's the problem...what the descriptive text implies, and what the mechanics of the class do....are not aligned.

I have not been approaching my build as a Yaddithian that is learning to shapeshift into an Ooze form....but as an Ooze that has superficial similarities to a Yaddithian....and that's (right or wrong) made a lot more sense...
They should change Fluidic Form to an EX....and clarify what you get from what a bit....that solves most of the problems.

[Zwordsman]

was making a weird Ooze based of a specific character with a robot arm and tendril attacks.

Realized that while Bombs from VMC alchemist are Supernatural.. the precise wording in the ooze means that one can not use it in ooze form.

Granted still doing it since most of the time will be in humanoid form. with sharding conducting amulet. Just fun.
A lot of assumptions built in though (Such as the clockwork arm and gear abosrbing into the body when I ooze it up, and properly connected after. Which in theory it would but still an assumption)

Its basically a human, who is cursed, but slowly learning how to control the curse and make it his own.
which sadly isn't really... what an ooze morph soundsl ike by the name and by the description.. but mechanics fit that idea the best.

I am really REALLY sad that the morphic weapons (as far as I know) don't qualify for Shfiter's Edge.. which are seriously a useful thing...

I hope the eratta puts in a note for Morphic weaponry to count as shifter claws for feats.. because down in the future there will probably be a lot of items and feats that specify shifter's claws.

[graystone]

Rhedyn wrote:

I think we can safely say the "specifics over general" clause applies here. No matter what, oozeform works in an anti-magic field.

It's a specific rule that doesn't work... It says you default to a SU form that you can't possible take/maintain as it's SU in an area that doesn't allow SU abilities to function... it NEVER gives a specific ability to the oozeform to ignore an antimagic field. "reverts to this formless state whenever she is unconscious or in an area of antimagic": nothing in reverting give a way for a SU ability to CONTINUE to function in that field.

Rhedyn wrote:

But oozeform is specified to work in an anti-magic field

It doesn't though. It makes you revert to ooze form... Nothing about STAYING oozeform or that SU ability being able to ignore the usual effects of antimagic.

Rhedyn wrote:

I think that's weird though, which is why I advocate that Oozeform is not an ability.

I'll disagree. I think making it a separate EX ability makes it super clear/obvious what abilities are base and what is an active SU ability. The whole Fluidic Body (Su) needs a re-edit to separate Oozeform from it.

[nighttree]

Ya, there is still a huge amount of guess work involved with building an Oozemorph....not to mention it is radically different enough that it suffers from being locked out of a lot of feats (outside the extremely general feats).

It no longer qualifies for all feats that list Wild Shape or claw attacks....so it's pretty sparse.

Eldritch Heritage/Nanite Bloodline is the best I'm doing so far...

[nighttree]

At the risk of bringing up another unanswerable question...senses....in "blob" form....shouldn't you have 360 senses ? I mean you can't be flanked.....

[Zwordsman]

"If the oozemorph later reverts to a humanoid form with no natural weapons, she can instead create three morphic weapons"

Granted i'm taking this from d20. so maybe its worded differently in the book. But in Morphic Weaponry there is this line.
Why is it Reverts to humanoid form.. when revert means return.. and your base form is an ooze?

--------
Do really wish they'd just change it up and make it so the oozemorph can only morph into an ooze form.. base is whatever race you choose.. but your ooze morph got more.. ooze benefits.
Ah well. My weird.. "Curse of the Ooze God" acquired from drinking something weird in a tomb....is pretty amusing.

[graystone]

Zwordsman wrote:

"If the oozemorph later reverts to a humanoid form with no natural weapons, she can instead create three morphic weapons"

Granted i'm taking this from d20. so maybe its worded differently in the book. But in Morphic Weaponry there is this line.
Why is it Reverts to humanoid form.. when revert means return.. and your base form is an ooze?

LOL The funny thing is, I don't know if you CAN revert to your old form. You can assume a humanoid form as per alter self: If you aren't a humanoid to start with, no go [and I'm not sure alter self can replicate specific creatures]. SO, for instance, a tiefling can NEVER revert to it's original form.

SO revert is clearly the wrong word to use. Replace "reverts to a humanoid form" with "takes on a humanoid form" and it works better.

[nighttree]

Zwordsman wrote:

"If the oozemorph later reverts to a humanoid form with no natural weapons, she can instead create three morphic weapons"

Granted i'm taking this from d20. so maybe its worded differently in the book. But in Morphic Weaponry there is this line.
Why is it Reverts to humanoid form.. when revert means return.. and your base form is an ooze?

--------
Do really wish they'd just change it up and make it so the oozemorph can only morph into an ooze form.. base is whatever race you choose.. but your ooze morph got more.. ooze benefits.
Ah well. My weird.. "Curse of the Ooze God" acquired from drinking something weird in a tomb....is pretty amusing.

I'm ok with the idea that your default form is an Ooze....in fact I rather like the idea. The problem is that it's written as a class ability, when it should be written using template language....because it functions more like a template.

[PossibleCabbage]

Working on something with the Oozemorph, does anybody know if there are any available small-sized targets for Beast Shape I that have no natural attacks (so you can use the full number of morphic weapons)?

[Corpi Hoppins]

Zwordsman wrote:

"If the oozemorph later reverts to a humanoid form with no natural weapons, she can instead create three morphic weapons"

Granted i'm taking this from d20. so maybe its worded differently in the book. But in Morphic Weaponry there is this line.
Why is it Reverts to humanoid form.. when revert means return.. and your base form is an ooze?

--------
Do really wish they'd just change it up and make it so the oozemorph can only morph into an ooze form.. base is whatever race you choose.. but your ooze morph got more.. ooze benefits.
Ah well. My weird.. "Curse of the Ooze God" acquired from drinking something weird in a tomb....is pretty amusing.

I think it’s a mistake in that it’s assuming that your using beast shape and then going into the alter self since your ooze form is, based on the what the person who submitted the idea, supposed to be a bad form to be in so it’s assumed at that level you’ll generally be human shaped as you’ll have enough hours at that point to be humanoid all day to interact and speak.

[Corpi Hoppins]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Working on something with the Oozemorph, does anybody know if there are any available small-sized targets for Beast Shape I that have no natural attacks (so you can use the full number of morphic weapons)?

Mouthless, pawless rat that uses ice pick limbs to compensate with a new pincer mouth.

[nighttree]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Working on something with the Oozemorph, does anybody know if there are any available small-sized targets for Beast Shape I that have no natural attacks (so you can use the full number of morphic weapons)?

Alter self is the only thing I have focused on.

I'm ok with being able to turn into a cat....but to me that's a very circumstantial shift.

I'm building from the perspective I will usually be in Ooze form....or emulating a humanoid (later when I have enough uses).
I'm not approaching this from the wildshape angle at all.

[PossibleCabbage]

Well, the choice is between "alter self" to be some small humanoid for the accuracy, dex, and AC bonus, and because morphic weapons do not appear to suffer a size penalty and some normally harmless small option for beast shape I.

If there's some animal you can shift into that is harmless, until you use improved unarmed strike, then you can manifest the maximum number of morphic weapons. The only net gain is to the natural armor bonus, so I guess I can just deal with only using alter self to be humanoids.

Also, it's really weird that the Oozemorph does not get "Disguise" as a class skill. You're literally a puddle that makes itself look like a person, so why wouldn't you practice making the person look one way or another.

[graystone]

A quick look didn't come up with any with NO natural weapons, no matter HOW bad they were they seem to list something. [take pig, goat or donkey rat for instance]

[nighttree]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Also, it's really weird that the Oozemorph does not get "Disguise" as a class skill. You're literally a puddle that makes itself look like a person, so why wouldn't you practice making the person look one way or another.

Agreed......Disguise should be added.

[Corpi Hoppins]

I think my favorite part of the class is the moronic weapons because not only can it appear anywhere at any time and can’t be negated by antimagic. You can shape it as anything from an axe to a hidden tooth and still be as effective. Wanna murder a villager? Why simply walk over and stab them when you can disguise yourself as a chicken or a rabbit and give em what seems like a little nibble then BAM 2d6+(3*strength). Then when they fall over click hop away as they check on them and slide into a snake hole and your gone. Now you have a serial killer with no definite form and a lot of ways to kill that can’t be traced.

[nighttree]

Corpi Hoppins wrote:

I think my favorite part of the class is the moronic weapons because not only can it appear anywhere at any time and can’t be negated by antimagic. You can shape it as anything from an axe to a hidden tooth and still be as effective. Wanna murder a villager? Why simply walk over and stab them when you can disguise yourself as a chicken or a rabbit and give em what seems like a little nibble then BAM 2d6+(3*strength). Then when they fall over click hop away as they check on them and slide into a snake hole and your gone. Now you have a serial killer with no definite form and a lot of ways to kill that can’t be traced.

OK...so question....can it be a claw ?

I am thinking "manufactured weapons" currently....and yet I can see manifesting a claw or bite with Morphic weapon as well...

[PossibleCabbage]

I'm pretty sure Morphic Weapons are like Kinetic Blade in that what you describe it as is purely cosmetic- it does the same thing no matter what form it takes and the only choice you make is "what type of damage it does."

[Corpi Hoppins]

nighttree wrote:

Corpi Hoppins wrote:

I think my favorite part of the class is the moronic weapons because not only can it appear anywhere at any time and can’t be negated by antimagic. You can shape it as anything from an axe to a hidden tooth and still be as effective. Wanna murder a villager? Why simply walk over and stab them when you can disguise yourself as a chicken or a rabbit and give em what seems like a little nibble then BAM 2d6+(3*strength). Then when they fall over click hop away as they check on them and slide into a snake hole and your gone. Now you have a serial killer with no definite form and a lot of ways to kill that can’t be traced.

OK...so question....can it be a claw ?

I am thinking "manufactured weapons" currently....and yet I can see manifesting a claw or bite with Morphic weapon as well...

As long as it’s attached to you somewhere and can fulfill the typed damage so blugeoning, slashing, or piercing I see no reason you can’t make it.

[nighttree]

So would it qualify as a "natural attack" for feats ?

[Corpi Hoppins]

nighttree wrote:

So would it qualify as a "natural attack" for feats ?

yes they are natural attacks always so they count. That means you can improve natural attack morphic weapon.

[graystone]

nighttree wrote:

So would it qualify as a "natural attack" for feats ?

"An oozemorph can create a number of natural weapons". Yep, they're natural attacks.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I'm pretty sure Morphic Weapons are like Kinetic Blade in that what you describe it as is purely cosmetic- it does the same thing no matter what form it takes and the only choice you make is "what type of damage it does."

Yep, this is how I read it: they are morphic weapons. So it could LOOK like a claw, but it wouldn't count as one and instead always count as a morphic weapon attack. So if you make your teeth grow big and 'bite' someone, it's not a bite but a morphic weapon.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Okay, brain just went weird. Wonder if oozemorphs can get 'Swallow Whole'...

[Corpi Hoppins]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Okay, brain just went weird. Wonder if oozemorphs can get 'Swallow Whole'...

If you multi with gingerbread witch you can get the full ooze fantasy.

[graystone]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Okay, brain just went weird. Wonder if oozemorphs can get 'Swallow Whole'...

This is getting dangerously close to a certain type of japanese animation... :P

[PossibleCabbage]

I don't know what kind that is, and I suspect it is best that I continue this state of ignorance.

[graystone]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I don't know what kind that is, and I suspect it is best that I continue this state of ignorance.

Bring eyebleach and a long shower with iron wool if you do. ;)

[Corpi Hoppins]

Vore + tentacles = an awkward talk as your dm explains why you have to stop molesting their npc’s and a horrifically scarred party who had to watch it unfold in all its horror. Thus Lord Badtouch was born and quickly killed for raising questions that no one wanted answered.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Wow...

My brain didn't go to *that* weird of a place, HONEST!

I was thinking more like Sgt. Shlock from Shlock Mercenary....

[Rosc]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Okay, brain just went weird. Wonder if oozemorphs can get 'Swallow Whole'...

I got a cute slime for that, too.

graystone wrote:

This is getting dangerously close to a certain type of japanese animation... :P

guys please

[nighttree]

I wish they would decide to allow Psychic spellcasting in Ooze form...that would give some flexibility/dipibility :P

[Corpi Hoppins]

nighttree wrote:

I wish they would decide to allow Psychic spellcasting in Ooze form...that would give some flexibility/dipibility :P

Yeah it’s aweird limitation since your thinking and stuff as you can control your character so I’d assume psychic casting which doesn’t require verbal, somatic, or material components(mostly) would be allowed. Plus the holding thing is silly since you can just use morphic weapon to make a rack for your backpack or a hand to pull a lever with.

[Name Violation]

nighttree wrote:

I'm not an optimizer....so I'll leave that to someone else.

I'm just looking for flavorful and enjoyable to play....and see if I can actually come up with something worth playing from 1st level on...

half orc oozemorph 6/ horizon walker 3/barbarian 1. You can take dimensional savant line of feats to simulate pounce, and rage

Or not take horizon walker and use the item mastery feat for dimension door.

Or could take the line of feats to get the totem feats from UW

[nighttree]

Astomoi is another very interesting race option.....