Additionally, graystone, if it's an undine/ooze combo, can it have the Amphibious trait?
or if my kitsune can change shape into it's human form, totally ignoring it's ooze form? Does my tiefling keep its energy resistances? A catfolk keep its claws? Android android use nanite surge? Drow keep Darkvision and Light Blindness? Grippli have a Toxic Skin? [and if I get a Agile Tongue, can I use it] Can my tengu still glide? Ratfolk keep Swarming? Goblin monkey keep Prehensile Tail?
Literally every race has things we don't know how it interacts with blog form.
So, anything stopping an oozemorph from using normal weapons+morphic weapons as secondary attacks? Because getting 2-4 free attacks on top of a full attack doesn't seem too bad, even if the attacks themselves aren't very good. I'm thinking either using a Morningstar and eventually getting an amulet of mighty fists +1 for dr/magic (and not bothering with other dr, letting that thwart your attacks if it does) or else using the wilding strike feats so you can focus on an amulet of mighty fists for DR/metal types. Maybe throw in Pummeling Style and Feral Combat Training too, that way the natural weapons get DR added only once. This seem like it works (even if it is incredibly feat-intensive)?
Literally every race has things we don't know how it interacts with blog form.
So "this is treated as a polymorph effect" is the text in the book.
Using the good ol' "Treated as isn't IS" methodology... You keep everything except the stuff it explicitly says you lose (like the ability to speak or carry items).
Completely different question out of strange field here.
So... if someone is an oozemorph, is it a slur to call them a 'blob'?
Are organized play credit characters that haven't been formed yet going to be needing a new name because the terminology may be used by a class?
Literally every race has things we don't know how it interacts with blog form.
So "this is treated as a polymorph effect" is the text in the book.
Using the good ol' "Treated as isn't IS" methodology... You keep everything except the stuff it explicitly says you lose (like the ability to speak or carry items).
You missed something Squiggit: the archetype makes your blob form your BASE form. You HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE as they never told you what you base form has... The "this is treated as a polymorph effect" is for YOUR OTHER RACE", so when you change into your humanoid form, you "keep everything except the stuff it explicitly says you lose", not the other way around. You are gaining from your humanoid form and nothing tells you what you start with as a base blob form.
So semantics over "treated as" doesn't enter the issue: it's what happens when you AREN'T using the "treated as" polymorph effect that's unknown.
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I personally came to the Kitsune conclusion on my own but it was more of an extension off an existing one that also has levels in Investigator (Infiltrator). Basically a spy who focused on sleight of hand, disguise and bluff checks. The Oozemorph seemed like a natural fit as a 1-level dip.
As the fluid body is easily overcome by the ability to naturally change shape. Which is why I didn't consider the 1-hour drawback entirely bad if it was my 1st level in the archetype. I also don't have to worry when unconscious/sleep and being seen as some random ooze on a bed by an on looker.
What I also think can be useful about the base form is disguise checks, specifically to appear as something mundane like a mere puddle of water.
The compression monster ability I think is actually extremely useful for infiltrating a place like through a drain pipe, window crack, or even a keyhole.
Feats: Realistic Likeness, Skill Focus (Bluff), Deceitful, Deft Hands, Iron Will, Walking Sleight
Alt. Racial Traits: Duplicitous (+2 racial bonus on Disguise and Bluff)
Traits: Adopted (by Aasimar for Innocent trait), Practiced Deception
Point-Buy (20): Charisma (Primary, 17 points), Dexterity (3 points)
Attribute Level Bonuses: DEX (4th), CHA (8th), CHA (12th)
Skill Rank Placements: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Use Magic Device
Now what I personally found strange was the Oozemorph gets "Beast Form I/II" and "Giant Form I" instead of "Ooze Form I/II/III" which are in the same book. As when reading these, without getting spoilery, they expand the capability of what an Oozemorph could do if given to them.
I wonder how an Oozemorph/Monk would flow. Or even an Oozemorph/Brawler...
Could be a solid 2 level dip for a Kitsune Monk (with one of the charisma archetypes ideally). Kitsune Change Shape lets you function most of the time, Oozemorph gives you compression, a +2 Str for 1 hour/day, DR 4/slashing, and the ability to sacrifice your item use for immunity to critical hits/precision damage/flanking, which probably has some use since you have enough AC without armor to not be completely gimped. Morphic Weapon admittedly won't help though.
It'd be a neat story development in a campaign if that was the result of nearly being eaten by an ooze, or a GM pulled their punch on green slime, etc?
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ROFLMAO.....so the shifter was meant to be the "easy polymorpher"....then this archetype comes along.......:P
ROFLMAO.....so the shifter was meant to be the "easy polymorpher"....then this archetype comes along.......:P
It's the easiest archetype around. Most of the time you're a blob with no movement so you can just say 'I attack anything that comes within 5 feet' and the player can go to sleep for 23 hrs out of the game day... :P
...and even better, you exist in a quantum state because you are an undefined blob for 23 of those 24 hours...
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...I can see it now.
"What kind of character are you going to play?"
"I dunno. So I'm gonna take Oozemorph. No clue what it does, but it's a formless blob that sort of sits there, so... get 'em folks. I'll just soak up the free exp until about... oh, fifth or sixth level when I can pretend to be humanoid all day long."
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...I can see it now."What kind of character are you going to play?"
"I dunno. So I'm gonna take Oozemorph. No clue what it does, but it's a formless blob that sort of sits there, so... get 'em folks. I'll just soak up the free exp until about... oh, fifth or sixth level when I can pretend to be humanoid all day long."
Just pour me into a bucket and wake me up once we hit 6th!!!
*snore*... Wait, I don't even know if I can snore!!! Curse you unknown abilities!!!
...do I sleep, even??
...do I sleep, even??
Not if your blob form is an ooze. But don't worry, you'll be mindless so it will not bother you... :P
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So...if you take a level of Oozemorph any time after level 1, your body just loses cohesion and liquefies? That would be interesting to explain to the party.
You could have fun with this. Maybe your character wants to find new ways to gain power, so they experiment with body modifications? A transfusion of elf blood for better sight, for example. Or better yet, there was this rumor that ingesting a special serum made from Gibbering Mouther parts can possibly grant the ability to change shape. What could go wrong?
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...I can see it now."What kind of character are you going to play?"
"I dunno. So I'm gonna take Oozemorph. No clue what it does, but it's a formless blob that sort of sits there, so... get 'em folks. I'll just soak up the free exp until about... oh, fifth or sixth level when I can pretend to be humanoid all day long."
Just pour me into a bucket and wake me up once we hit 6th!!!
*snore*... Wait, I don't even know if I can snore!!! Curse you unknown abilities!!!
Regular oozes don't sleep, but apparently we are not a regular ooze, we actually can sleep.
(In before abducted in your sleep by a random wizard because they want you as a test subject for their research papers on a brand new species of ooze that requires sleep)
I wonder how an Oozemorph/Monk would flow. Or even an Oozemorph/Brawler...Could be a solid 2 level dip for a Kitsune Monk (with one of the charisma archetypes ideally). Kitsune Change Shape lets you function most of the time, Oozemorph gives you compression, a +2 Str for 1 hour/day, DR 4/slashing, and the ability to sacrifice your item use for immunity to critical hits/precision damage/flanking, which probably has some use since you have enough AC without armor to not be completely gimped. Morphic Weapon admittedly won't help though.
I made a oozemorph 2/unchained monk 5 as a backup character for a campaign I'm in, designed to fight in oozemorph form.
It has Vanara as its race, to give it a climb speed. Unchained monk instead of regular monk as it works better (flurry works off of BAB). It needs Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training for its natural attacks to work in the flurry. A Ioun stone (gold nodule, Common) will let it speak.
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Let me see if I got this correctly... At level 1, with a 20 in Con, I have a Fort of +7... I can assume Humanoid form ONCE PER DAY... So I have a 55% chance of being all but completely useless to the party for 23 hours a day... Should I pass I have a 60% chance one hour later... This has to the be the very worst archetype in the entire game for what is already a very sub-par class...At least now there's a definite answer to the age-old question "what is he worst class for a one level dip?"
It seems this might actually not be true... It's been brought to my attention that as an Ex-Shifter you lose all (SU) abilities... Oozemorph only has one... Take one level of Oozemorph Shifter, immediately teach someone Druidic and now you've got Compression, Morphic Weapons & Ooze Empathy... Hold out one more level for DR 4/slashing if you really want to...
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That... That is delicious.
Normally you have to re-train Ex-[Anything] levels to make any use of them. But Ex-Oozemorphs are a straight improvement over the base class!
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I guess we know now why " some shifters consider the oozemorph to be unsettling or even vile"-- they're just looking to teach someone Druidic after 2 levels.
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I guess we know now why " some shifters consider the oozemorph to be unsettling or even vile"-- they're just looking to teach someone Druidic after 2 levels.
They don't even have to do that. If they wear metal armor and/or shield, they can advance in the class while suppressing their SU abilities for 24 hours.
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They don't even have to do that. If they wear metal armor and/or shield, they can advance in the class while suppressing their SU abilities for 24 hours.
I do love the mental image of oozing out of your full plate armor after a long day's adventuring.
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I guess we know now why " some shifters consider the oozemorph to be unsettling or even vile"-- they're just looking to teach someone Druidic after 2 levels.They don't even have to do that. If they wear metal armor and/or shield, they can advance in the class while suppressing their SU abilities for 24 hours.
They do lose DR when wearing metal though, the ability only works unencumbered and in no or light nonmetal armor. Also, since the archetype replaces weapon/armor proficiency, they might not lose SU abilities because weapon/armor proficiency is the class feature that specifies shifters cannot safely use metal armor.
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They do lose DR when wearing metal though, the ability only works unencumbered and in no or light nonmetal armor.
Armor. They could wear a metal shield, gaining DR and losing SU's.
Also, since the archetype replaces weapon/armor proficiency, they might not lose SU abilities because weapon/armor proficiency is the class feature that specifies shifters cannot safely use metal armor.
Possibly, but that'd mean the archetype can wear metal armors like a mithral breastplate. Either way, the archetype gains something.
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Damage Reduction (Ex): At 2nd level, an oozemorph gains
DR 4/slashing while unencumbered and either wearing
no armor or wearing light nonmetal armor.
This might be an hint for either interpretations between:
- keeps abiding the vote of nonwearing metal armor and shields, plausibly losing benefits of Su and Sp class features if violating the druidic code
- or, Oozemorph lost the nonmetal code thing in proficiencies, but still cannot use for some reason light metal armor to gain Damage Reduction
Or, it's just a verbatim: someone forgot the nonmetal word between light and armor
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The Kitsune hack doesn't work as it's base form is the ooze as a polymorph effect. Meaning it looses the supernatural ability to alter self into it's choosen human form once the hours per level Fluidic Body ability of the class are used up.
The Oozemorphs abilities should be better defined, from movement to turning into you characters starting race. Hoping for an errata or FAQ soon as the Oozemorph could be a popular option out of this book.
If it "looses the supernatural ability to alter self" then how does it keep the old forms move speed? How are you picking and choosing which abilities from your old form you get and what you don't? Until we know that, how can you say "The Kitsune hack doesn't work"? IMO no hack, no land speed... Which one 'breaks' the archetype more? :P
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The Kitsune hack doesn't work as it's base form is the ooze as a polymorph effect. Meaning it looses the supernatural ability to alter self into it's choosen human form once the hours per level Fluidic Body ability of the class are used up.
The Oozemorphs abilities should be better defined, from movement to turning into you characters starting race. Hoping for an errata or FAQ soon as the Oozemorph could be a popular option out of this book.
Oh, you’re right! Oozemorph and Change shape are both explicitly Polymorph abilities! Which means that turning into your human form absolutely overrides your Ooziness!
In any case, Su abilities are most certainly not dependent on form. And if you lose everything your race granted you, does that mean humans lose their bonus feat? Do elves lose thier weapon familiarity? Your racial stat changes? Your racial FCB? There’s really no way to draw the line that makes any sense, with what we currently have.
Is there a difference between your base form and your race? As it doesn't seem like your Type changes either.
The Kitsune hack doesn't work as it's base form is the ooze as a polymorph effect.
While under the effects of a polymorph effect you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on form.
Arguing that your magical ability to transform into a fox is form dependent is a bit of a hard sell, I think.
Also I know some people in ths thread don't think it matters, but for what it's worth oozemorph says "Treat as a polymorph" not "is a polymorph".
Also I know some people in ths thread don't think it matters, but for what it's worth oozemorph says "Treat as a polymorph" not "is a polymorph".
It's not really a matter of "don't think it matters" but having no basis for knowing what difference there is between "Treat as a polymorph" and "is a polymorph". As such, it's meaningless to dwell on undefined terms as I have no way to judge relevance. Unless they tell us differently, it's a moot semantic quibble.
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I don't think it matters because the Oozemorph seems to need a throughout Errata scrubbing before it approaches proper playability... so no single problem in it matters on its own.
It totally feels like an oozemorph should be able to use, say, the Flagbearer feat if someone just plants a flag in your oozy mass.
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You know, if the Kitsune change shape works, it could be a lot of fun to RP as a character who was robbed of their true form. Could be anything from being experimented on, to a witch's curse, or even divine punishment. Wouldn't even need to multiclass if you didn't want to (though a CHA based monk could be fun)I was thinking something similar, in a whole "You're useless unless you dedicate yourself to (this tiny subset of) nature" sense, only for the PC to show up, perfectly normal and announce that all of Numeria knows druidic.
Set up a school teaching druidic 101...
I don't even know how they could address a third of the issues with oozemorph and still me within word count for the books errata, the archetype already takes up a page and a half as is.
I'd almost find it conceivable for them to remove the entire archetype for in the second printing.
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As much as I'm at least mildly interested in getting my hands on this archetype, I have to admit there are some things that I would have done different. Maybe I'll work on an alternative.
Here's the pitch: It has the same "base form" as oozemorph, but its defined as a template to make things easier. (Same as the archetype, but your land speed is 10 lower, minimum 5, and you lose any natural nonland movement types)
You also get a pool of Morphic Points, maybe half your level plus Wis mod. As long as you have at least 1 MP, you can freely Shape Change into a slimy version of your original form. If you are out of MP, you automatically dissolve into ooze form and this overrides the typical Kitsune/Skinwalker shenanigans.
As for special powers, still working on that, but the big feature is that you'll get abilities the same way a Qinggon Monk does but at every odd level. That is, the ability to spend MP on thematic spell-like abilities like Longarm, Acid Arrow, and Slipstream, or on temporary bonus feats like Lunge, Awesome Blow, or Improved Natural Attack.
You'll get natural attacks like oozemorph does, but you can combine them into a single, massive weapon.
Sound fun?
Has anybody brought up Schlock Mercenary yet? Really seems like a Sgt Schlock in a fantasy world is what the author was aiming for.
No to both.
Schlock hasn't been brought up, but since the ooze form is supposed to be a penalty, he was clearly not aiming for Schlock either.You don't get any ooze abilities except those mentioned by the class. You do not get the ooze subtype, you just count as one for effects that target you, so a lot of your "does he get?" can be answered by "no".
The movement rate is still subjected to debate, but apparently you keep the movement of your original race, so watch out for flying strix oozes.
Other abilities are even more controversial, so there's no answer yet.
Actually, Polymorph specifically removes all abilities based on shape. Luckily, most oozemorph abilities specify that they work in any shape.
Actually, Polymorph specifically removes all abilities based on shape.
Yep, like land speed... ;)
Can an oozemorph uses rules for throwing melee weapons to throw his newly generated morphic weapons after each attack? Because that would be AWESOME