If you feel that is overpriced, i suspect you will also be unhappy with suggestions following since many will(presumably) base off of that existing item for relative comparison.
Magic item pricing is more art then science, as the DM you could assign whatever value you wish and choose to allow/disallow as you prefer.
Fast healing will translate to free healing after every battle back to max(for everyone since the ring could just be passed around.) which puts it in the same vein as the unlimited cure minor wounds debate from the 3.5 to PF transition ruleset. It was not something the creators wished to see, so it was very expensive to get. (see linked ring above)
Hope that helps a little bit on other perspective, and good luck with whatever you choose!
what you're asking about is better than a ring of regeneration since fast healing would heal all damage and not just damage taken while the ring was on. Thus the price should be approximate to that ring. If you think that ring is overpriced or weak well then your view is different so what's the point of asking if you already know what you feel is okay.
Well, an "on command" ring of Celestial Healing (caster level 1) would be about.... 16k. Normal price of a level 1 spell with a caster level of 1 and a duration of rounds/level is 8000gp. The problem comes from Celestial Healing being 1round/2levels. So we'll just double the cost and call it a day.
An on command item like this would also have to be activated each turn as a standard action.
The Ring of Regeneration may be overpriced, but something like "always fast healing 1" is going to be MORE than a RoR without the limit on only healing damage while the Ring is on you. Just remember that Fast Healing 1 is 14400 HP per day. You heal 100 HP in 10 minutes. 10 MINUTES. It takes spellcasters long to prep their spells for the day.
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To be fair, the ring also regrows limbs.
In my opinion yes, on a ring it would be too strong unless you had to wear the ring for a full day before it started working. Fast Healing 1 is next to useless unless you are outside of combat.
Boots of the Earth are Fast Healing 1 for 5,000gp and a move action to start them. They also give a minor bonus against being moved if I recall. Aim for around that price range.
Celestial Healing
Just the mention of this spell makes me ill... It's just SO very, very, very bad/horrible/sucktastic...
As Azten points out, there is already an at will fast heal item, the boots of the Earth. If you put it on an item with no strings attached, multiple the 5000gp cost by x2 or x3 and call it a day.
As to "wear the ring for a full day before it started working", I don't think it needs it as the boots can be passed around at will.
If you feel that is overpriced, i suspect you will also be unhappy with suggestions following since many will(presumably) base off of that existing item for relative comparison.
Magic item pricing is more art then science, as the DM you could assign whatever value you wish and choose to allow/disallow as you prefer.
Fast healing will translate to free healing after every battle back to max(for everyone since the ring could just be passed around.) which puts it in the same vein as the unlimited cure minor wounds debate from the 3.5 to PF transition ruleset. It was not something the creators wished to see, so it was very expensive to get. (see linked ring above)
Hope that helps a little bit on other perspective, and good luck with whatever you choose!
and remember that very interesting limitation that goes vs passing the ring around : you have to already be wearing the ring for it to cure a given set of damage on you... if you're already hurt and put one the ring, it will just assume that this is your normal state and do nothing.
Celestial HealingJust the mention of this spell makes me ill... It's just SO very, very, very bad/horrible/sucktastic...
As Azten points out, there is already an at will fast heal item, the boots of the Earth. If you put it on an item with no strings attached, multiple the 5000gp cost by x2 or x3 and call it a day.
As to "wear the ring for a full day before it started working", I don't think it needs it as the boots can be passed around at will.
The boots only work while you are conscious, though.
As for the ring, the 'must wear it for 1full day before it starts working' clause is absent from the PFSRD. It wasn't present in the 3.5DMG either, I'm too lazy to dig out my AD&D DMG to check, but I bet such clauses hadn't even be thought of yet.
As for the ring, the 'must wear it for 1full day before it starts working' clause is absent from the PFSRD. It wasn't present in the 3.5DMG either, I'm too lazy to dig out my AD&D DMG to check, but I bet such clauses hadn't even be thought of yet.
That wasn't in regards to the ring of regeneration, but a reply to Azten who felt the hypothetical ring of fast healing should have one.
In my opinion yes, on a ring it would be too strong unless you had to wear the ring for a full day before it started working. Fast Healing 1 is next to useless unless you are outside of combat.
To be fair, the ring also regrows limbs.
And how often do people lose limbs? What things in the game actually do this?
In my opinion yes, on a ring it would be too strong unless you had to wear the ring for a full day before it started working. Fast Healing 1 is next to useless unless you are outside of combat.
If you don't do this then it basically means that you are buying one item that can heal the entire party.
seldom, especially since 3e did away with the sword of sharpeness and all other sharpness effects.
does regrowing a vorpally severed head dispensate you from needing a raise dead/resurrection spell cast on you?
As for the ring, the 'must wear it for 1full day before it starts working' clause is absent from the PFSRD. It wasn't present in the 3.5DMG either, I'm too lazy to dig out my AD&D DMG to check, but I bet such clauses hadn't even be thought of yet.That wasn't in regards to the ring of regeneration, but a reply to Azten who felt the hypothetical ring of fast healing should have one.
In my opinion yes, on a ring it would be too strong unless you had to wear the ring for a full day before it started working. Fast Healing 1 is next to useless unless you are outside of combat.
A ring of this type essentially also provides bleed immunity and the diehard feat since it's a magical healing source.
Generally speaking you should always be skeptical of creating any custom magic items (IMO). And when you do create them you should always look at similar magic items prices.
The most similar magic item is the ring of regeneration. It is debated whether or not the ring of regeneration would protect you from death (as normal regeneration does) since it doesn't actually state you gain the regeneration special ability, simply that it restores one HP per round and will regrow limbs/organs.
At that point you have to look at how much is the value of regrowing limbs and organs, and the answer is very little. Very few effects actually cut off limbs (vorpal, maybe a few others). So basically the ring of regeneration is a very expensive ring of fast healing one. But that's what the game designers valued it at. I honestly can't see reducing the price too substantially since the other things the ring of regeneration does are minimal. I wouldn't evaluate it at a value of lower than 67500 gp (25% off the ring of regeneration).
For another item that is almost exactly what your player wants there are the boots of the earth. However, they take a move action to activate and require you to stand in place. So...you are the GM decide how you want to do things. Personally I'd give him boots of the earth with all the drawbacks that normally come with it.
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A ring of this type essentially also provides bleed immunity and the diehard feat since it's a magical healing source.
Diehard doesn't just stabilize you; it allows you to keep acting when in negative HP.
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A ring of this type essentially also provides bleed immunity and the diehard feat since it's a magical healing source.Diehard doesn't just stabilize you; it allows you to keep acting when in negative HP.
In 3.5 the only reason I took the Feat was so I wouldn’t have to deal with stabilization rolls >_>
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The price gap there is extreme for items with basically the same use. As you say, the regrowing limbs isn't that significant. And the restrictions on the boots aren't a big deal either - for the main use of an out of combat healing item, which since 1hp/round isn't a big deal in a fight, it essentially is.Generally speaking you should always be skeptical of creating any custom magic items (IMO). And when you do create them you should always look at similar magic items prices.
The most similar magic item is the ring of regeneration. It is debated whether or not the ring of regeneration would protect you from death (as normal regeneration does) since it doesn't actually state you gain the regeneration special ability, simply that it restores one HP per round and will regrow limbs/organs.
At that point you have to look at how much is the value of regrowing limbs and organs, and the answer is very little. Very few effects actually cut off limbs (vorpal, maybe a few others). So basically the ring of regeneration is a very expensive ring of fast healing one. But that's what the game designers valued it at. I honestly can't see reducing the price too substantially since the other things the ring of regeneration does are minimal. I wouldn't evaluate it at a value of lower than 67500 gp (25% off the ring of regeneration).
For another item that is almost exactly what your player wants there are the boots of the earth. However, they take a move action to activate and require you to stand in place. So...you are the GM decide how you want to do things. Personally I'd give him boots of the earth with all the drawbacks that normally come with it.
Eh, I disagree. Since the boots require you to use a move action to activate and stand still it means you can't do it while moving about. You're locked into a spot until you're done healing. That means valuable buffs could be ticking down, instead of walking to your next destination. I actually see the movement restriction as a pretty significant drawback.
The tried and true method will always just be a wand of cure light wounds or infernal healing. Especially if your GM is good about keeping you on track for WBL, your expended items shouldn't count against your long term wealth. Which means if you're level 10 you should have (roughly) 62000 gp worth of gear. This includes any CLW wands you might have on you, but doesn't include the other 10 wands you expended leveling up.
Hey, I agree that the ring of regeneration is overpriced, but I also think the boots of the earth are severely under-priced, even with their drawback.
But this is why I (as a GM) simply don't allow custom items and tell players to make do with existing items. Custom items are difficult to resolve.
We have 2 items that are fairly similar in function, with a few important differences and an 85,000 gp cost difference. How do we resolve that?
Personally I just don't.
Of course, I compensate players for consumables being used so if the fighter wants to purchase 3000 gp worth of potions and uses them all up he will get 3000 gp worth of stuff to even back out his WBL.
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Then why did you ask?what do you mean? he didnt answer my question all he did was point to another ring which we arnt interested in
The Ring of Regeneration does exactly what you are asking for.
Hey, I agree that the ring of regeneration is overpriced, but I also think the boots of the earth are severely under-priced, even with their drawback.
But this is why I (as a GM) simply don't allow custom items and tell players to make do with existing items. Custom items are difficult to resolve.
We have 2 items that are fairly similar in function, with a few important differences and an 85,000 gp cost difference. How do we resolve that?
Personally I just don't.
Of course, I compensate players for consumables being used so if the fighter wants to purchase 3000 gp worth of potions and uses them all up he will get 3000 gp worth of stuff to even back out his WBL.
There's a chance that the boots will be errata'd to work only once per day. PFS did a clarification having it work like this and there's a decent possibility that they did their homework and found out that it shouldn't be as powerful for it's price tag.
The Ring of Regeneration does exactly what you are asking for.
But the Ring of Regeneration also brings you back from the dead.
At least, I assume it that's what it's supposed to do. That's the only way the price makes sense.
The Ring of Regeneration does exactly what you are asking for.But the Ring of Regeneration also brings you back from the dead.
At least, I assume it that's what it's supposed to do. That's the only way the price makes sense.
No, the Ring of Regeneration does not grant the Regeneration special ability. It is essentially fast healing 1, since there very few things in game that sever limbs.
There's a chance that the boots will be errata'd to work only once per day. PFS did a clarification having it work like this and there's a decent possibility that they did their homework and found out that it shouldn't be as powerful for it's price tag.Hey, I agree that the ring of regeneration is overpriced, but I also think the boots of the earth are severely under-priced, even with their drawback.
But this is why I (as a GM) simply don't allow custom items and tell players to make do with existing items. Custom items are difficult to resolve.
We have 2 items that are fairly similar in function, with a few important differences and an 85,000 gp cost difference. How do we resolve that?
Personally I just don't.
Of course, I compensate players for consumables being used so if the fighter wants to purchase 3000 gp worth of potions and uses them all up he will get 3000 gp worth of stuff to even back out his WBL.
At which point nobody will ever use them, same as all the other interesting items.
i still stand by that fast healing 1 should be valued at around 8-12k gold
20k will get you 1 hp/10 minutes
18k will get you 4 hp/hour
3.4k will get you 1 hp/hour
Both work as per a Ring of Regeneration.
At which point nobody will ever use them, same as all the other interesting items.There's a chance that the boots will be errata'd to work only once per day. PFS did a clarification having it work like this and there's a decent possibility that they did their homework and found out that it shouldn't be as powerful for it's price tag.Hey, I agree that the ring of regeneration is overpriced, but I also think the boots of the earth are severely under-priced, even with their drawback.
But this is why I (as a GM) simply don't allow custom items and tell players to make do with existing items. Custom items are difficult to resolve.
We have 2 items that are fairly similar in function, with a few important differences and an 85,000 gp cost difference. How do we resolve that?
Personally I just don't.
Of course, I compensate players for consumables being used so if the fighter wants to purchase 3000 gp worth of potions and uses them all up he will get 3000 gp worth of stuff to even back out his WBL.
Almost like some other items like a certain Jingasa... Or Bracers of Falcon’s Aim [why a 24hr wait on a 1/day item?]... There is a BIG pile of 'fixed' items already that aren't of any real use anymore...
Bracers of Falcon's aim: Command word [Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp] and Charges per day [Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)] = bracers SHOULD cost 360 gp but costs OVER TEN TIMES that amount cuz ... reasons?
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Even if compared to other items, the bracers of falcon's aim are overpriced. Considering items that provide the benefit of a feat are 5000 gp if slotted, +1 competence to hit is a 4000 gp unslotted item, and +3 to perception should be 900 GP. If you multiply both the 4000 GP and 900 GP for being secondary effects, an all day bracer of falcon's aim should be 12 350 GP. A command word, single use per day version should be 2223 GP. And that's using the unslotted value for the competence bonus to hit, slotted should cut 3000 off the all day effect, and 560 off the single use per day.
For pricing custom 'spell in a can' magic items, I generally like to look at how many of a consumable (usually wands) they would use instead, until the price became negligible compared to a characters wealth.
Healing is a difficult one, since the amount you can use up is much less limited than other items. For example, a fireball items is only going to be able to be used in combat, and their are limited rounds of combat for a character for each level. Say maybe a dozen a dozen or two combats per level, maybe 4 rounds per combat, so you can figure out that a wand of fireball would likely last for a whole level of combat, even if used extensively. A regular wand of fireball costs just over 11k, this becomes pretty negligible at maybe level 18 (2% of WBL) so I'd say from when you could potentially avoid our hypothetical item would be level 10, so 8 levels, or at most 8 'wands' worth of utility. Given that by that time, and certainly even more as time goes on, the 'action' cost becomes too great for a piddly 5d6 fire damage, I'd be comfortable considering it to have 5 'wands' worth of utitility, assuming the same sort of activation cost (standard) so I'd be pretty comfortable with an item that cost 55k and could spit out a 5d6 fireball indefinitely.
Now as I said, healing is harder, because it happens outside of combat, so the amount of times you could use it over the course of a level becomes harder to guess, and unlike the fireball, taking place outside of combat means the activation cost is less meaningful. the fact remains though, that if you are going to allow things like wands of infernal healing (or even CLW) the players will have the same capability, and their does come a point when the gold piece expenditure becomes unimportant.
750 gp for a first level wand, we'll say a single character might go through 20 such wands over the course of their career so that puts a pretty good high point at 15,000 gp. I'd probably cut that down to 10,000 since there is a period when they can't afford it and a period when the wand costs become so small they are rounding error compared to wealth by level, and also there will often be times when 1 hp/round isn't fast enough, so additional healing will have to be employed (when you have take 100 hp and are on the clock, 1/round isn't sufficient, even the humble wand of CLW heals you 5 times as fast)
I think that is a fairly good price for an item that provides 1/hp fast healing per round, assuming that it takes up a slot and is limited to only working for a single character (has to be worn 24 hours to activate for example.)
I think at that price some players would choose to buy it, others would make do with other methods, and it wouldn't unbalance the game. If though you a running a game where magic items are limited (i.e. you can't buy or make the wands) that would change the calculation somewhat.
This should really be compared with wands of CLW, as both provide modest out-of-combat healing with some minor restrictions. A wand costs 750gp to buy and heals 50x5.5 = 275 hp, ie about 3gp per hp.
The wand is
* slotless
* quicker to use (5.5hp/round vs 1) and spread around
* very easy to craft, so making your own is routine, so its actual cost is probably less (maybe half? call it 2gp/hp)
* reliant on having a caster or UMD, though every party has at least one PC who can do that
The ring is
* automatic - good for action economy though this seldom matters here
* proof against bleed damage and similar effects
An average character has something like (level x 8) hp, and in a progression from level 5 to 15 (where he might conceivably have a ring like this) he will burn through all those hp about 50 times (4 full adventuring days per level). So that's 50 x (8x10) = 4000hp, or 8000gp in wands. Multiply that by the 4 characters per party (they all take damage and get healed) makes 32000gp.
32000gp is a bit pricey for a 5th level character, so its lifetime utility is actually less (you wouldn't get it until perhaps 9th level). So its value is therefore less (maybe 25000). OTOH, unlike a pile of used wands, you can sell it when you're finished, which adds +50% adjusted for Net Present Value (1gp is worth less to a 15th level character than to a 5th).
Which brings me to conclude that a fair price is 32000gp. YMMV
Because the pricing formulas are guidelines not rules.
Things should be priced based of similar items, only using the formula when there isn't anything to base it on. Strict application of the formula leads to use-activated True Strike weapons. :)
Oh I understand, which is why I wouldn't expect the base cost but as Deighton Thrane points out, compared to similar items the bracers are quite overpriced and at least twice what it should be. They turned a underpriced item into an overpriced one. It'd be nice if they actually used moderation in nerfing items.
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I've always wondered: what's the point of pricing rules if the default response is that they shouldn't be followed?
Sure. So my point stands: they serve no purpose.
The book states that your first response for a new item is to compare it to a similar existing item. If there isn't something similar, you should then use the charts. And I've run into plenty of those, since I spent a year making at least one item every day.
Taks,
They serve a purpose in PFS play, strict APs, and as a GUIDELINE to help GMs.
OP, the "No Duh" answer is, If the ring would serve a purpose in your game, such as filling a need for extending your characters' "workday", then of course let it in." ALL of the objections to it are based on presumption that every game is balanced in much the same way, which is patently untrue. You, as the GM will have to make that call. There has been a lot of good advice you can draw on, but we do not know you or your needs.
Good luck with this, and there is nothing that can't be fixed if it doesn't work out.
Wonderfully said. Especially the bit about Fast Healing in combat. Without anything to actually back it up it just simply can't keep pace with damage.
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Lol - he asked, didn't like the answer, threw a fit and left.
And the thread just went on and on...