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Methods of Dex to Damage by level 1


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


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I like figuring out options for various builds...it's weird, but well...

Anyways, so I am trying to figure out all the ways to get dex to damage by level 1, Obviously we are looking closely at Slashing Grace, Fencing Grace, and Starry Grace (Did I miss any?). Dervish Dance is out because prereqs of dance 2 is outside of most builds (I think)
---------------

Any race
* Inspired Blade (rapier only)
* dawnflower dervish bard (scimitar)

Human (Martial finesse weapons)
* Warpriest
* Swashbuckler
* Fighter
* Unchained Rogue
* daring champion cavaliers
* virtuoso bravo paladins
* id rager bloodragers with the hatred spirit
* flowing monks (restricted weapons)

Exotic weapon human
* Bravado Swashbuckler (dueling sword)
* Kensei Magus (any one light finesse weapon)

Temperary
* Occultist (transmutation/magic weapon spell/legacy weapon agile)
* Human Brawler


Inspired Blade, not Dashing Blade.

A dawnflower dervish bard gets dervish dance as a bonus feat at first level.

An occultist with a transmutation implement and the magic weapon spell can cast that spell, then use legacy weapon to make the weapon agile.

Othe human options include daring champion cavaliers, virtuoso bravo paladins, id rager bloodragers with the hatred spirit & flowing monks. A human brawler could do so at least temporarily.


Thank you, updated the list in post 1


Come to think of it, weapon focus at L1 would do too for humans. Which means Kapenia dancer magi (bladed scarf only), battle oracles, crusader clerics (where the favored weapon is finessable & slashing, or a rapier or starknife) and hamatulatsu master & weapon adept monks could all manage dex to damage at L1.


What is Martial finesse? Do you have a link or can you point me to the source book?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Unchained Rogue won't work. You don't have the BAB +1 qualification for Weapon Focus at 1st level, nor can you get it at as a rogue talent before 2nd level.


Slashing/Starry/Fencing Grace would all do it, but you're more or less restricted to being a human fighter or human warpriest. Bladed Brush+Slashing Grace lets you do it with a glaive as long as you worship Shelyn.

Book of the Damned has 2 feats that let you deal Dex to damage with a spiked chain. You don't need Weapon Focus to do it either, though you still need Weapon Finesse, EWP (spiked chain), and both feats.

DM Livgin wrote:
What is Martial finesse? Do you have a link or can you point me to the source book?

I think "martial finesse" is just referring to martial weapons that are compatible with Weapon Finesse.


Yes that is what I am referring to with Martial Finesse, weapons that are both Martial weapons that can use Weapon Finesse (ala Rapier)


Are you limited to first-party material? If not, check out DSP's Deadly Agility feat. Anyone with a bonus feat and full BAB (or full-BAB-for-the-purpose-of-qualifying-for-feats) can then have it at level 1.

I should also point out that if you are limited to first-party material, Slashing Grace doesn't work with Spell Combat. It technically works (you just don't get D2D in the same round as you use Spell Combat) but Spell Combat is half of the Magus' raison d'être.


The kensai works with a light slashing weapon, starknife or a rapier but not with light finessable weapons in general - bludgeoning or piercing-only weapons other than those still have no dex-to-damage feats.

@ Diachronos - there's more options than that. Besides the oddities like dawnflower dervish bard, any class/archetype which gets weapon focus at first level can take weapon finesse and slashing/whatever grace with their first level feat and a human feat. Any class/archetype which gets weapon finesse and +1 BAB at first level could do similarly, and an inspired blade swashbuckler gets both of those and so can get fencing grace without the human feat.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There is also some debate as to whether a Kapenia Dancer magus can duplicate the Kensai Magus's trick with a bladed scarf. The bladed scarf is normally a 2-handed slashing weapon, but this archetype not only grants proficiency but enables 1-handed use.


Athaleon wrote:

Are you limited to first-party material? If not, check out DSP's Deadly Agility feat. Anyone with a bonus feat and full BAB (or full-BAB-for-the-purpose-of-qualifying-for-feats) can then have it at level 1.

I should also point out that if you are limited to first-party material, Slashing Grace doesn't work with Spell Combat. It technically works (you just don't get D2D in the same round as you use Spell Combat) but Spell Combat is half of the Magus' raison d'être.

what is the conflict with Spell combat? is it that the other hand is being used for casting?


avr wrote:

The kensai works with a light slashing weapon, starknife or a rapier but not with light finessable weapons in general - bludgeoning or piercing-only weapons other than those still have no dex-to-damage feats.

@ Diachronos - there's more options than that. Besides the oddities like dawnflower dervish bard, any class/archetype which gets weapon focus at first level can take weapon finesse and slashing/whatever grace with their first level feat and a human feat. Any class/archetype which gets weapon finesse and +1 BAB at first level could do similarly, and an inspired blade swashbuckler gets both of those and so can get fencing grace without the human feat.

Why would something like the dueling sword not work? I guess "most" accurate would be to say any one one handed slashing finessable weapon, rapier, or starknife


Jason Wedel wrote:
Athaleon wrote:

Are you limited to first-party material? If not, check out DSP's Deadly Agility feat. Anyone with a bonus feat and full BAB (or full-BAB-for-the-purpose-of-qualifying-for-feats) can then have it at level 1.

I should also point out that if you are limited to first-party material, Slashing Grace doesn't work with Spell Combat. It technically works (you just don't get D2D in the same round as you use Spell Combat) but Spell Combat is half of the Magus' raison d'être.

what is the conflict with Spell combat? is it that the other hand is being used for casting?

Spell Combat "works like two-weapon fighting", and in any case there is a FAQ stating specifically that Slashing Grace doesn't work with Spell Combat.

Silver Crusade

There's a problem for Rogues, Magus and other 3/4 BAB players. You can't get Weapon Focus at Level 1, because it requires BAB 1.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-focus-combat-final/

And weapon focus is a requisite for Slashing Grace and other Grace feats.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Marcus Steelfeather wrote:

There's a problem for Rogues, Magus and other 3/4 BAB players. You can't get Weapon Focus at Level 1, because it requires BAB 1.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-focus-combat-final/

And weapon focus is a requisite for Slashing Grace and other Grace feats.

That actually only stops the rogue.

The bard archetype Dawnflower Dervish gains Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at 1st level, presumably without having to meet any prerequisites.

The Kensai Magus gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level. Since none of the Grace feats themselves have BAB +1 as a prerequisite, a human Kensai Magus can qualify for Slashing Grace.


Jason Wedel wrote:
avr wrote:

The kensai works with a light slashing weapon, starknife or a rapier but not with light finessable weapons in general - bludgeoning or piercing-only weapons other than those still have no dex-to-damage feats.

@ Diachronos - there's more options than that. Besides the oddities like dawnflower dervish bard, any class/archetype which gets weapon focus at first level can take weapon finesse and slashing/whatever grace with their first level feat and a human feat. Any class/archetype which gets weapon finesse and +1 BAB at first level could do similarly, and an inspired blade swashbuckler gets both of those and so can get fencing grace without the human feat.

Why would something like the dueling sword not work? I guess "most" accurate would be to say any one one handed slashing finessable weapon, rapier, or starknife

I hadn't thought about the aldori dueling sword, but wanted to mention that you can't use e.g. a light hammer (light, martial, bludgeoning) with any Paizo dex to damage feat. Since light is a different category to one-handed (though they both use one hand) then totally accurate is 'light or one-handed slashing finessable weapon, rapier or starknife.'

Silver Crusade

David knott 242 wrote:
Marcus Steelfeather wrote:

There's a problem for Rogues, Magus and other 3/4 BAB players. You can't get Weapon Focus at Level 1, because it requires BAB 1.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-focus-combat-final/

And weapon focus is a requisite for Slashing Grace and other Grace feats.

That actually only stops the rogue.

The bard archetype Dawnflower Dervish gains Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at 1st level, presumably without having to meet any prerequisites.

The Kensai Magus gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level. Since none of the Grace feats themselves have BAB +1 as a prerequisite, a human Kensai Magus can qualify for Slashing Grace.

It stops Crusader archetype Cleric as well. Alas, the Crusader's bonus feats do not ignore prerequisites except for "class or level based" prerequisites, so you still need BAB +1 for Weapon Focus.


Any race
* Inspired Blade (rapier only)
* dawnflower dervish bard (scimitar)

Human (Slashing one handed light/Martial finesse weapons, Rapier, Starknife)
* Warpriest
* Swashbuckler
* Fighter
* daring champion cavaliers
* virtuoso bravo paladins
* id rager bloodragers with the hatred spirit
* flowing monks (restricted weapons)
* Bravado Swashbuckler (+dueling sword)
* Kensei Magus (Can use an exotic finesse one handed weapon)
* Kapenia dancer magi (bladed scarf only)
* battle oracles
* hamatulatsu master (limited weapons)

Temporary
* Occultist (transmutation/magic weapon spell/legacy weapon agile)
* Human Brawler


David knott 242 wrote:

Unchained Rogue won't work. You don't have the BAB +1 qualification for Weapon Focus at 1st level, nor can you get it at as a rogue talent before 2nd level.

Humans can get weapon focus as a racial feat with Adoptive Parentage. Much like the bard archetype Dawnflower Dervish, I assume gaining it as a bonus feat at 1st level means it's presumably without having to meet any prerequisites.

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