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Providing the Flank to my Allies - PFS PC


Advice


Ok, so a of us are looking at making a team that usually plays together. We intend to make maximum use of the Outflank teamwork feat. To that end, one of us (probably me) will specialize in getting into that flanking position.

So I'm thinking high acrobatics and hard to hit. My first thoughts are a parrying swashbuckler or a monk with crane style (I think that was the style that makes you hard to hit).
But then I started to think about someone with the dimensional step ability. No need to acrobatics into position. Just suddenly there and providing the flank.

What do you folks think? Which of these three would work better and live longer? Is there another possibility I haven't considered that would work better?

I haven't built a character for anything like this before. Any build recommendations?


Think creatively. If you have at least three melee people in the group and you all have gang up you all have flanking on your target and can use outflank without having to seperate from your group to get flanking.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Panther Style. You could even play... The Porcupine!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

you could play a small Mouser [Musketeer], either Halfling or Gnome; or if you have the Ratfolk race boon, use it's Swarming trait and make it a barbarian...

Basically get in their face, in the square- you provide flanking while in the square.

get some Menacing weapons to boost the Flanking bonus.

Circling Mongoose would be fun when there's a decent group of enemies and all your allies "ready to attack, when have flanking" and just dance around the battlefield.


Revolving Door Alternate wrote:

But then I started to think about someone with the dimensional step ability. No need to acrobatics into position. Just suddenly there and providing the flank.

What do you folks think?

For that, what you want is to dip a level in Arcanist. They have this ability called Dimensional Slide ( or Hop, or something), where you can teleport 10' as part of your Move with no disorientation, so you can still take the rest of your actions.


I've been wanting to try a Halfling Eldritch Guardian Fighter with a Bat Mauler Familiar which grows to Size Medium in Combat. The Halfling will ride the bat and have a flying mount!

That would work perfectly with Panther Style Feats and Outflank, or any of those lovely Teamwork Feats that are also Combat Feats. Remember that an Eldritch Guardian's Familiar has all your Combat Feats.


Botched my dramatic link up above for... The Porcupine!


Daring champion seems interesting. A human daring champion cavalier could have weapon finesse (class feature), plus weapon focus and a dex to damage feat, as well as a bonus teamwork feat. With order of the lion, they'd be able to give out an additional +1 competence bonus to hit to all allies within 30' at 2nd level (lion's call).


Gang up is basically the one you'll want. Barring a dwarven hunter in your group it's your best bet.


Option 1
I like a Guiding Blade Swashbuckler 1/Freebooter Ranger x for a "help people flank" build.

+2 from outflank, +2 freebooter, +2 menacing for a total flank of +8.

On top of that a scaling freebooter bane for additional attack and damage boosts.

As for getting in to flank I find high AC, miss chance, invis are far more effective than acrobatics. Snake style has worked well for me, in the past. Sense motive is easy to optimize.

Option 2

MY favorite option for setting up flank reliably is an elephant. Trample is a great way to get into a flanking position, outflank, menacing etc. to increase the bonus. Make the animal a bodyguard to help allies survive if you like. A large creature also has the benefit of being a flanking partner for more people. And if you're looking get a little bit more out of the elephant, it is the only animal that can use a weapon, tusk blades. These have a 19-20 crit range and can be keened working well with outflank.

Sorcerers and Inquisitors both can have animal companions, and they can cast the spell Tactical Acumen which can further increase the bonuses I have laid out.


A wand of vanish can set up some easy flanks if you have anyone that can reliably use it (wizard, sorcerer, bard, magus). Wand user taps melee dude with wand, turning him invisible for one round and allowing him to move wherever he wants without provoking AoOs from most enemies.


You say 'all of us'. How many people are you flanking with? As in, are there at least three people agreeing to this?

Maybe get a hunter. They can get outflank as a bonus feat and their animal companion gets it too. Thus, you can have 2 flankers that can move about the battlefield, proving help to numerous people.

This doesn't prevent you from getting hit... but it gives you 2 flankers for the price of one. Ergo, you have a spare if one character is too hurt to take the hit.


lemeres wrote:

You say 'all of us'. How many people are you flanking with? As in, are there at least three people agreeing to this?

Maybe get a hunter. They can get outflank as a bonus feat and their animal companion gets it too. ...

There should be 3 of us most of the time. Actually one of the other guys is going to be a hunter. However, he tends to be a bit too risk-averse to reliably provide flanking bonuses.

RumpinRufus wrote:
Botched my dramatic link up above for... The Porcupine!

Has some interesting ideas which I will definitely consider. But I wouldn't take all of it, because I don't want just the movement portion of my turn taking 15 everytime.

RealAlchemy wrote:
Think creatively. If you have at least three melee people in the group and you all have gang up you all have flanking on your target and can use outflank without having to seperate from your group to get flanking.

We do intend to eventually get Gang-Up. However, in PFS, we've often found it difficult to get 3 people next to each other threatening the same opponent (small spaces), so we still need someone to take the risk of getting on the other side of the opposition.

Selvaxri wrote:

... if you have the Ratfolk race boon, use it's Swarming trait and make it a barbarian...

Basically get in their face, in the square- you provide flanking while in the square.
...

I have so many ideas I would dearly love to try if I had a ratfolk boon.

Grandlounge wrote:


...
Option 2

MY favorite option for setting up flank reliably is an elephant. Trample is a great way to get into a flanking position, outflank, menacing etc. to increase the bonus. Make the animal a bodyguard to help allies survive if you like. A large creature also has the benefit of being a flanking partner for more people. And if you're looking get a little bit more out of the elephant, it is the only animal that can use a weapon, tusk blades. These have a 19-20 crit range and can be keened working well with outflank.
...

I had not thought of this. I really like the idea. However, in PFS, I've found my druid with a big companion often relegated to rear guard because he has to squeeze to get everywhere and is so incredibly non-sneaky. I will bring up the option as something our hunter could think about using when it works for him.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Revolving Door Alternate wrote:

But then I started to think about someone with the dimensional step ability. No need to acrobatics into position. Just suddenly there and providing the flank.

What do you folks think?

For that, what you want is to dip a level in Arcanist. They have this ability called Dimensional Slide ( or Hop, or something), where you can teleport 10' as part of your Move with no disorientation, so you can still take the rest of your actions.

Is that the only way to get it? I could have sworn I saw it on a monk, but I wouldn't have thought he had arcanist levels.


I have run several AC to level 9-13 in pfs. I have rarely seen this issue.

Here are tricks to avoid it. Reduce animal, and or airwalk. Have the AC lead the group flying just above the primary PC. A third option is narrow frame.

Even in places like a house you only lose 2 squares of movement going through a narrow door it is easy to work around. Most dungeons have 10ft wide halls. It is only a problem if the fight is in a 5ft hallway. Ten foot hallways are fine. It's actually the point of the build to get into flank when others would not be able to. Trample right over and get into position.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

A standard monk gets abundant step at 12th level, a little late for PFS. An unchained monk can pick it up at 8th level as a Ki Power. There may be other options that get it sooner.

Monk would have the advantage of being highly maneuverable (good movement speed), have a reasonable DEX and Acrobatics skill.


I am a personal fan of the Jabbing Style feat line. Particularly the second one, Jabbing Dancer.

I would probably persue this feat line with the Unchained Monk. Unfortunately it's a bit feat intensive, requiring Dodge and Mobility, but you are able to get those as bonus feats with UnMonk. The rest of the style feats are still pretty nifty too. You get plenty of extra damage if you hit, which you probably will with the flank bonuses you'll have.

Then comes all the icing on the cake. You can pick up the Flying Kick Style Strike at 5th level so you can stay mobile on the battlefield, putting yourself in position to flurry and further "dance" into flank. Then to top it off, you can pick up the Abundant Step ability at 8th level as a back-up, in case you need that extra teleportation to get to flank. Then if you really feel like you need more, Monks can still pick up acrobatics and do quite well with it.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Depending on what you're looking to make your character's style, building around Overrun could be a way to accomplish getting past something and into flanking position.


Jinaeus wrote:
A wand of vanish can set up some easy flanks if you have anyone that can reliably use it (wizard, sorcerer, bard, magus). Wand user taps melee dude with wand, turning him invisible for one round and allowing him to move wherever he wants without provoking AoOs from most enemies.

I like Ninja Vanishing Trick, which can be used as a Swift Action instead of a Standard Action. Then get the Rogue Talent False Attacker, which lets you make a Bluff Check as an Immediate Action to convince your target that your attack came from somewhere else, so you don't break Stealth. So, in Round 1 you Vanish and use Stealth, and then every round after attack with a Wand of Scorching Ray, a Ranged Touch Attack Cantrip like Acid Splash, or a Robe of Needles, using False Attacker every round to keep your cover and keep making Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flattfooted AC that keeps locking in your Sneak Attack Damage. Sweet. Maybe dip 3 levels in Monk, Drunken Master and replenish your Ki by Drinking.


BretI wrote:

A standard monk gets abundant step at 12th level, a little late for PFS. An unchained monk can pick it up at 8th level as a Ki Power. There may be other options that get it sooner.

Monk would have the advantage of being highly maneuverable (good movement speed), have a reasonable DEX and Acrobatics skill.

Abundant Step in conjunction with Dimensional Dervish Feats is significantly more powerful than what I'm proposing. The advantage of my proposal is that it is cheap: all yours for a 1 level dip. Plus other bonuses: with both Sorcerer and Wizard Spell Lists, you can use all those Wands with no need for UMD checks. And there are other Arcane Exploits you might want, which would also mean your Dimensional Hop will get better.

In between might be 3 levels in the Horizon Walker Prestige Class. Still another Option might be Cleric with the Travel(? I'm not sure, maybe Trickery?) Domain.

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