So, I'v been tossing arround ideas for what to play, Talking to my party and my GM and I randomly tossed out, Half as a joke, The idea of a "Lawful Evil Summoner who worships Asmodeus and always wears a mask, And whos eidolon is a three headed hellhound with fire breath." And to my suprise my GM went "Awesome! DO IT!!!"
So that brings the question, How to play a Lawful Evil character? And how to handle it in a non evil party (Most of the party is some sort of neutral, One or two is good)
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Merellin wrote:
So that brings the question, How to play a Lawful Evil character? And how to handle it in a non evil party (Most of the party is some sort of neutral, One or two is good)
It would work best if the campaign has some sort of overall objective that a Lawful Evil character could find legitimate common ground with neutral and good players on.
"I will temporarily set aside our differences to work against this Chaos From Beyond that threatens everything, and we can resolve our own differences afterwards" is something I'd allow as LE, anyway. Kind of the Evil equivalent of joining forces with a morally dubious enemy to achieve a greater good. With whatever binding oaths will adequately convince the good characters that the LE character will stick to it and not backstab them later on.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
|
3 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Lawful Evil is relatively easy as long as there's a common goal the group is working towards. To be honest, I find Chaotic Neutral to be much more difficult to manage.
Being able to pledge your word and/or sign a contract is one of the occasional advantages of LE, but I agree that having some kind of common goal usually works best.
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
The most important thing is to make sure your character has a legitimate reason to be with the party and to display some amount of loyalty to the group. If your character is always back-stabbing the party, there's no reason for the party to keep the character around.
Just because you're evil doesn't mean you're a raving, homicidal lunatic. Maybe your character is just selfish, and doesn't care who he hurts to achieve his goals. Maybe he's just not concerned about mortal human suffering, believing that the poor and down trodden are in their situations because they deserve it for one reason or another (whether fate, divine will, or lack of personal ability to rise above). There are countless different ways to play "evil" without being a baby-eating monstrosity bent on destruction of everything "good."
I once played a Lawful Evil character in a party of good characters. His background was that he was a district captain in a large city's watch, and he was fanatically loyal to the good aligned king of the nation who lived in that city. My character felt that the king's goodness blinded him to the dangers of the city's underworld, and that the king's policies that protected individual liberties let too many dangerous people walk the streets and harm the regular citizenry. So, my character bent all the rules, down to torture and making criminals "disappear" in an effort to protect his city, king, and people. When he was finally discovered having tortured a criminal, he was punished and dismissed from the watch. My character understood this, because he knew he was violating the city's rules. My character violated the city's laws in order to remain true to his personal code of conduct and loyalty. After being removed from the watch, he became an adventurer, but kept his loyalty to his city and king, along with his willingness to do anything to protect them, even if it meant the damnation of his own soul.
Chaotic Neutral is fine.
You're confusing the problem child with Chaotic Stupid and shallow players who can't tell the difference between them.
Make your character from the same place as the rest (or the bulk) of the rest of the party and be deeply committed to preserving the traditional values and way of life from your home country, no matter how many vilified examples of "the other" need to die to do it.
Admittedly, this worked better like 3 years ago than it does now.
As with most alignments there are many many ways to do it. I'm going to just go over how my Asmodean did it because he was one of my favorite characters.
His general outlook was that order was the ultimate good and that evil was merely the most efficient way of achieving this ultimate good. He had no problem working with good or even chaotic entities. Simply if they took issues with his manner of problem solving they should offer a comparably effective solution. He didn't go around murdering or hurting people for no reason. In fact he actively avoided doing so as that typically leads to larger long term problems. He did however have no issues binding evil beings, offer Asmodean contracts, take souls of those slain in self defense, offer the masses an accurate understanding of Asmodean teachings, and otherwise expand his own influence and power to further the cause of order. After all the forces of "good" do all of these things in one form or another. He was simply doing so for his belief of right and wrong.
It was only 3/4 through the 2 year campaign that the CG player/character actually realized "Wait. I dislike your character"
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Also Red Fel did a brilliant guide to the alignment in 3.5
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rew arded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil
To me, with the right group of players/GM, and the right player mindset, a single Lawful Evil character in a party of good characters can really ramp up the role playing.
Not a perfect example, but Raistlin from the Dragonlance series is probably the most compelling character out of all of them.
He may not treat prisoners well.
He may ultimately want to be in charge.
He should keep his word of honour.
He may spend his money on stuff the party may not approve off.
He may not approve of other party members behaviour.
He will gladly help crush the pcs enemies
He should be a fine addition to any group!!!
It depends a whole lot on a) how good the good members of your group are and b) what sort of evil and how much of it you are going to do.
Assuming you are actually going to play someone who does evil things, (rather than play a lawful neutral but call it evil) anyone who is good will disapprove of those things. Lawful evil is easier than other evil alignments, since at least you can be trusted, but it still isn't good, and taking that alignment assumes you are expecting to do the sort of things that justify being considered evil.
I would recommend you take the exact same character concept, but make him lawful neutral instead. He can still worship Asmodeus all day long, he can even 'think' he is a bad dude, but when it comes down to it he really isn't as bad as he pretends to be, and you can still do evil things now and then as a neutral person.
I expect that neutral is what you will end up playing anyway if you have good people in your party and aren't going to have a ton of party conflict, so why not just cut out the drama and be neutral from the start?
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Keep your word.
Work up a code of honor that your character follows, and have him live by it, for good or ill.
Be charming, almost cavalier. But, when you are crossed, overdo it. Not by the party, unless it's a betrayal. Some one calls your bluff? You weren't bluffing. Every. Single. Time.
You can be ruthless without being an a%*%#$#. Be smart about your ruthless behavior.
Be there for your companions. Show them the benefits your loyalty provides them, but also, subtly remind them on occasion that that loyalty must be deserved.
Also keep in mind:
If you are not undead, a dragon, an outsider or a cleric, chances are the rest of the party will ever see the E part of your alignment from a spell, even if they are a Paladin, until 5th level or so.
If you've played this character well, they will question the results of the spell when it does happen :)
Have fun being evil :)
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Saldiven wrote: The most important thing is to make sure your character has a legitimate reason to be with the party and to display some amount of loyalty to the group. If your character is always back-stabbing the party, there's no reason for the party to keep the character around. I have a favorite Lawful Evil maneuver I pulled on my party. We had been exploring an extensive underground and operating out of a nearby small town, selling our salvaged treasures to a Halfling who seemed to have his hands in everything, legal and illegal.
One day, a merchant came into town giving our Halfling-patron some competition. The merchant was not intending to stay. He was waiting for some paperwork to arrive that would license him to operate in a city over the mountains. We heard from the Halfling who also mentioned that he disliked the new merchant a rumor that his paperwork was never going to arrive.
Well, on another day, we found a, well, it was hard to describe. Each of us saw something different. The Thief (Hackmaster, baby!) saw a huge, flawless ruby, my character, a Magic User, saw a rune stone that would magically translate texts. We each seemed to see the thing we wanted most. And the Dwarf, either the thing he wanted most was a nondescript piece of basalt crawling with fleshing-eating worms, or he was the only one in the party who made his Saving Throw. The party decided to have me hold onto the Wanting Stone (as we called it), because my character had an assortment of clay pots for collecting samples of this and that.
So, without telling anyone else in the party, I went to this merchant. I told him who we were. I told him that in our adventures around the area, we came across something that we didn't have any use for, "But," I said, "we were thinking a man of your connections would know a way of disposing of THIS!" And I lifted the top off my clay pot--careful not to look inside myself--and sure enough, he saw the thing he wanted most: the paperwork he needed to fulfill his business ambition to pull up stakes and go far away. I sold him the cursed stone for 2000gp (a good haul for our level 1 party).
And while he was getting packed up and ready to leave, I told the party what I'd done and paid them each their share of 500gp each. Oh, they were beside themselves! They couldn't decide if I'd betrayed them or not. They couldn't decide whether I'd cheated the merchant or not. They couldn't decide if Reggie (the Halfling) would be upset or pleased! They took their shares, though, and "Creepy" Claire became one to watch!
I agree with Kryzbyn.
For example: The character could be suave, debonair, charming, charismatic, but simultaneously covered with an air of arrogance, superiority, and condescension. Under all of this, there is a truly cruel and uncaring soul that would pave the road to his goals with the bones of anyone who stands in his way. He's not a wanton killer, but has no compunction about ending someone if that route is more expedient to his goals than leaving the person alive. He is loyal to his companions because he is still a social animal, and that loyalty is a two way street that provides as many (if not more) benefits as it does liabilities.
Dave Justus wrote: It depends a whole lot on a) how good the good members of your group are and b) what sort of evil and how much of it you are going to do.
Assuming you are actually going to play someone who does evil things, (rather than play a lawful neutral but call it evil) anyone who is good will disapprove of those things. Lawful evil is easier than other evil alignments, since at least you can be trusted, but it still isn't good, and taking that alignment assumes you are expecting to do the sort of things that justify being considered evil.
I would recommend you take the exact same character concept, but make him lawful neutral instead. He can still worship Asmodeus all day long, he can even 'think' he is a bad dude, but when it comes down to it he really isn't as bad as he pretends to be, and you can still do evil things now and then as a neutral person.
I expect that neutral is what you will end up playing anyway if you have good people in your party and aren't going to have a ton of party conflict, so why not just cut out the drama and be neutral from the start?
Actualy, This idea is much better! It was just a random idea i had, And the GM was trying to convince me to actualy do it, But I'm not overly comfortable with playing evil (Mostly because i'm just not good at evil..) So making it Lawful Neutral instead is actualy a perfect idea! Thanks! =D
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
I'm not a fan of alignments. If you're going to use the axis of 9, I don't think this thread has captured Lawful Evil well. In fact the example of the watchman breaking the law because the king won't, is an example of chaotic and good, not lawful and evil. He's someone willing to break the law in order to promote good at any cost.
Lawful Evil folk are adherent to the law, upholders of the law even. They believe in the rule of law. How they use that rule is where the evil comes in.
A cattle rancher competing with a neighbor who proposes a mutual cooperation contract between them. On the surface it appears like an insurance policy. They'll help each other with grain and feed in times of famine as well as share security costs. However, hidden wording allows the rancher to divert all of the water from their shared stream to his own land. The neighbor's cattle begins to sicken and die while he appeals to the authorities for help. It's theft! But it's legal. They're sharing food, not water, and the LE rancher is the agreed upon controller of that resource. The rancher sets up an anonymous business concern with financial backing to buy out the neighbor's land at a huge discount. The neighbor has no recourse but to sell and salvage what little he can. Evil, but perfectly legal.
A LE city watchman has been patrolling his block when he finds a banker beating his secretary in the middle of the street. He steps in to intervene, but the banker throws the law in his face. Employers are allowed to discipline employees who are free to quit in most cases. This secretary is supporting his family and cannot afford to miss a paycheck, therefore he cannot simply quit today. The watchman gives a few coins to a thug. The thug accosts the banker in the street the next day and puts a coin in the banker's hand for a piece of investing advice. The banker has no time for this, but he's taken the coin. The thug then proceeds to beat the banker and slap him around while the watchman walks by. The banker cries out for help, but the watchman just says, "Sorry, employers are free to discipline their workers. Good day." Smiling evilly to himself at his sense of justice, he strolls off winking at the secretary as he goes.
Pretty sure that most here will say it better than I, but just going to throw this out there.
As a player, the alignment is more or less your burden/issue not other player's or the GM.
Your job to not only keep to your alignment, but also make sure it doesn't dip into and mess anyone else's fun. (PVP, and other antagonistic Richard-ry)
If you and the GM use your specific alignment to come up with other story hooks and interesting plot points, while taking the rest of the party through a fun and enjoyable ride, then congratulations.
You are doing it right.
This is the best guide to playing Lawful Evil that I've come across.
Dhrakken wrote: Lawful Evil is relatively easy as long as there's a common goal the group is working towards. To be honest, I find Chaotic Neutral to be much more difficult to manage. The main thing to remember about Chaotic Neutral murder hobos is that if there is a door, they will want to kick it down and loot the room on the other side of it, possibly after killing an orc who was guarding a chest full of pie.
Or if you're going to introduce the bull to the china shop, make sure it's someone else's china shop, preferably someone you don't like.
Coidzor wrote: This is the best guide to playing Lawful Evil that I've come across.
Dhrakken wrote: Lawful Evil is relatively easy as long as there's a common goal the group is working towards. To be honest, I find Chaotic Neutral to be much more difficult to manage. The main thing to remember about Chaotic Neutral murder hobos is that if there is a door, they will want to kick it down and loot the room on the other side of it, possibly after killing an orc who was guarding a chest full of pie.
Or if you're going to introduce the bull to the china shop, make sure it's someone else's china shop, preferably someone you don't like.
You know, when the Mythbusters released Bulls into china shops, they found them to be quite graceful and careful about not breaking china
|
