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Can Magus Spellstrike stacks with Chill touch? How about with multiple attacks?


Rules Questions


I understand I can use Chill touch with a standard action and release it to perform spellstrike at the same turn or save it for next.
But chill touch does allows me to touch multiple target depends on my CL.

Let say I am a level 5 Magus, I suppose to be able to touch 5 targets with Chill touch.

If I use full attack with two weapons can I do both attacks with spell strike? Can I use the left stacks of Chill touch in next turn?
If I am a Changelings, can I strike once with my weapon with chill touch and then drop my weapon to perform two claw attack with chill touch as well as a full attack in one turn to a same target?


ChainCurse wrote:
Let say I am a level 5 Magus, I suppose to be able to touch 5 targets with Chill touch.

Yes. As a level 5 Magus you could make 2 chill-touch attacks in turn one (via spell-combat). You could deliver both of these charges through a touch attack or through your weapon using spellstrike (or one touch attack and one spellstrike if you prefer).

You would then have 3 charges of chill-touch still to deliver, and could deliver one per round through a touch attack or through your weapon using spellstrike. If you cast another spell during any of those rounds any remaining charges of chill-touch would be lost.

ChainCurse wrote:
If I use full attack with two weapons can I do both attacks with spell strike? Can I use the left stacks of Chill touch in next turn?

I believe so. Say in round 1 you use spell-combat to deliver 2 charges of chill-touch (as above). In round 2 you could use two-weapon-fighting to get 2 attacks (say with a gauntlet in your offhand). This would let you deliver 2 charges per round.

You'd want the two-weapon-fighting feat to avoid a -8 to hit with your offhand weapon, but it would work.

ChainCurse wrote:
If I am a Changelings, can I strike once with my weapon with chill touch and then drop my weapon to perform two claw attack with chill touch as well as a full attack in one turn to a same target?

No. Let's say you have 2 claws, and your right claw is holding a sword. If you use the sword this turn, you are unable to make natural attacks with your right hand. You can still use the claw in your left hand, but at a BAB-5 (because natural weapons always count as secondary natural weapons when you use them in conjunction with manufactured weapons).

If you had a weapon that was on a different limb to your claws it would work, Eg. If you have a tail attack or bite attack they wouldn't interfere with your sword hand. Or if you used a Dwarven Boulder Helmet instead of a sword then your claws would still be free to make attacks because that limb hasn't been used yet.

NOTE: Neither the Dwarven Boulder Helmet, nor the tail/bite attacks would be usable with Spell-Combat. Spell-Combat specifies that you must use a light or one-handed weapon, and it must be wielded in your hand. Claw attacks can be used with Spell-Combat because they are a light weapon wielded in your hand (kinda, it counts). If you want to be able to use a bite attack on the same turn as spell-combat you would have to take the NATURAL SPELL COMBAT magus arcana.


Sorry to chime in on a tangent.

Does the charge of the chill touch spell count as a manufactured weapon? I once read that manufactured weapons are everything that aren't natural weapons (except monks whose fists count as both?).

Also thanks for explaining how natural attacks work.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Trish Megistos wrote:

Sorry to chime in on a tangent.

Does the charge of the chill touch spell count as a manufactured weapon? I once read that manufactured weapons are everything that aren't natural weapons (except monks whose fists count as both?).

Also thanks for explaining how natural attacks work.

A touch spell is an armed attack (see "Touch Spells in Combat" in the PRD). However, it only counts as a manufactured weapon for certain purposes. See this thread.


@SlimGauge
So rays aren't manufactured weapons for sure and if they're not getting strength bonus to damage is a criterion, neither is Chill Touch, Mud- and Snowball or Acid Arrow.
River- and Spiderwhip are though. I think.
Though since Riverwhip and Spiderwhip make touch attacks I can't really assume that strength bonuses get added...and therefore would not be manufactured weapons even though they behave like whips (except for the touch attack of course.

While Icicle Dagger and Stone Discus definitely are manufactured weapons.

But what about Vine Strike?


Vine Strike seems more like a weapon enhancement. It's not an attack on its own, it just enhances your natural/unarmed attacks. Treat this more like the Corrosive/Flaming/Frost/Shock weapon enhancements than as a weapon on their own (they add bonus to damage, won't multiply on a crit, etc).


Oh yeah, that makes sense.
Sorry for derailing the thread.


MrCharisma wrote:
ChainCurse wrote:
Let say I am a level 5 Magus, I suppose to be able to touch 5 targets with Chill touch.

Yes. As a level 5 Magus you could make 2 chill-touch attacks in turn one (via spell-combat). You could deliver both of these charges through a touch attack or through your weapon using spellstrike (or one touch attack and one spellstrike if you prefer).

You would then have 3 charges of chill-touch still to deliver, and could deliver one per round through a touch attack or through your weapon using spellstrike. If you cast another spell during any of those rounds any remaining charges of chill-touch would be lost.

ChainCurse wrote:
If I use full attack with two weapons can I do both attacks with spell strike? Can I use the left stacks of Chill touch in next turn?

I believe so. Say in round 1 you use spell-combat to deliver 2 charges of chill-touch (as above). In round 2 you could use two-weapon-fighting to get 2 attacks (say with a gauntlet in your offhand). This would let you deliver 2 charges per round.

You'd want the two-weapon-fighting feat to avoid a -8 to hit with your offhand weapon, but it would work.

ChainCurse wrote:
If I am a Changelings, can I strike once with my weapon with chill touch and then drop my weapon to perform two claw attack with chill touch as well as a full attack in one turn to a same target?

No. Let's say you have 2 claws, and your right claw is holding a sword. If you use the sword this turn, you are unable to make natural attacks with your right hand. You can still use the claw in your left hand, but at a BAB-5 (because natural weapons always count as secondary natural weapons when you use them in conjunction with manufactured weapons).

If you had a weapon that was on a different limb to your claws it would work, Eg. If you have a tail attack or bite attack they wouldn't interfere with your sword hand. Or if you used a Dwarven Boulder Helmet instead of a sword then your claws would still be free to make attacks because that limb...

What if I use spell combat with frost touch and delivered two attacks(touch) on the first turn, can I pick up my other weapon or use my claws to deliver two attacks as spell strike on turn 2?


You are only ever going to deal 1 touch attack/turn (barring quickened spells).

Outside of the free touch attack that comes with casting a touch spell, making a touch attack is a standard action.

You can never attack with the empty hand used to qualify for spell combat as part of the full attack you get with spell combat.


ChainCurse wrote:
What if I use spell combat with frost touch and delivered two attacks(touch) on the first turn, can I pick up my other weapon or use my claws to deliver two attacks as spell strike on turn 2?

Do you mean CHILL TOUCH (or FROSTBITE?) FROST TOUCH is a wizard/sorcerer spell that won't give you 2 touch attacks.

Assuming you mean Chill Touch or Frostbite, you would still only get one touch attack on the first turn. Volkard Abendroth is right, you'll only get 1 touch attack per turn. However, as a Magus you can deliver spells through your normal attacks, so you could deliver one as a touch attack and one as a weapon attack in the first round, or both through weapon attacks. Also touch spells can be delivered through natural attacks, so yes on turn 2 if you have 2 claws you could deliver 2 more charges of your spell ... HOWEVER, your attacks with your weapon, and your natural attacks will NOT be touch attacks (they resolve against regular AC, not touch AC). There's no such thing as a partial hit in pathfinder, so you have to either use a touch attack (only once per round and deals no damage apart from the spell, resolves vs touch AC) or use a regular/natural attack (as many times per round as you have ieterative/natural attacks, deal weapon damage along with spell-damage, resolves against regular AC).

I would thoroughly recommend reading THIS GUIDE if you're new to the Magus class. It'll really help you get your head around how touch spells work, and how spellstrike changes things.

(PS sorry if I repeat myself or sound condescending, I'm tired and can't get my head around editing my post properly at the moment)


MrCharisma wrote:
ChainCurse wrote:
What if I use spell combat with frost touch and delivered two attacks(touch) on the first turn, can I pick up my other weapon or use my claws to deliver two attacks as spell strike on turn 2?

Do you mean CHILL TOUCH (or FROSTBITE?) FROST TOUCH is a wizard/sorcerer spell that won't give you 2 touch attacks.

Assuming you mean Chill Touch or Frostbite, you would still only get one touch attack on the first turn. Volkard Abendroth is right, you'll only get 1 touch attack per turn. However, as a Magus you can deliver spells through your normal attacks, so you could deliver one as a touch attack and one as a weapon attack in the first round, or both through weapon attacks. Also touch spells can be delivered through natural attacks, so yes on turn 2 if you have 2 claws you could deliver 2 more charges of your spell ... HOWEVER, your attacks with your weapon, and your natural attacks will NOT be touch attacks (they resolve against regular AC, not touch AC). There's no such thing as a partial hit in pathfinder, so you have to either use a touch attack (only once per round and deals no damage apart from the spell, resolves vs touch AC) or use a regular/natural attack (as many times per round as you have ieterative/natural attacks, deal weapon damage along with spell-damage, resolves against regular AC).

I would thoroughly recommend reading THIS GUIDE if you're new to the Magus class. It'll really help you get your head around how touch spells work, and how spellstrike changes things.

(PS sorry if I repeat myself or sound condescending, I'm tired and can't get my head around editing my post properly at the moment)

Thank you so much guys and yes it was chill touch (my bad). Prob my last question: If I have multiple natural weapon (claws & Bite), can I do a full attack with 2 claws and bite all as spellstrike on turn2?


Natural attacks don't need spellstrike. Any attack with a natural weapon or unarmed strike automatically delivers a spell whether you want it to or not.
Actually I believe Paizo did an FAQ or something that said that touch spells are attached to one limb (so only one of your natural attacks would deliver the spell) but I'm not quite sure. Also thinking about it, Spellstrike might remove that restriction anyway (so maybe your wording was correct?).

Have a read of that guide, it'll clear a lot up for you, and come back if you still have any questions afterwards.


Thanks for everything guys !


MrCharisma wrote:


Actually I believe Paizo did an FAQ or something that said that touch spells are attached to one limb (so only one of your natural attacks would deliver the spell) but I'm not quite sure.

Unless it was recent and I missed it there has been no such ruling.


ChainCurse wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
ChainCurse wrote:
What if I use spell combat with frost touch and delivered two attacks(touch) on the first turn, can I pick up my other weapon or use my claws to deliver two attacks as spell strike on turn 2?

Do you mean CHILL TOUCH (or FROSTBITE?) FROST TOUCH is a wizard/sorcerer spell that won't give you 2 touch attacks.

Assuming you mean Chill Touch or Frostbite, you would still only get one touch attack on the first turn. Volkard Abendroth is right, you'll only get 1 touch attack per turn. However, as a Magus you can deliver spells through your normal attacks, so you could deliver one as a touch attack and one as a weapon attack in the first round, or both through weapon attacks. Also touch spells can be delivered through natural attacks, so yes on turn 2 if you have 2 claws you could deliver 2 more charges of your spell ... HOWEVER, your attacks with your weapon, and your natural attacks will NOT be touch attacks (they resolve against regular AC, not touch AC). There's no such thing as a partial hit in pathfinder, so you have to either use a touch attack (only once per round and deals no damage apart from the spell, resolves vs touch AC) or use a regular/natural attack (as many times per round as you have ieterative/natural attacks, deal weapon damage along with spell-damage, resolves against regular AC).

I would thoroughly recommend reading THIS GUIDE if you're new to the Magus class. It'll really help you get your head around how touch spells work, and how spellstrike changes things.

(PS sorry if I repeat myself or sound condescending, I'm tired and can't get my head around editing my post properly at

...

Each natural attack that hits will always deliver 1 held charge, if available.

This happens with or without spellstrike.

Spellstrike allows you to do this with manufactured weapons.

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