I am a Witch and I wish to scribe some sorcerer spells. Could I somehow have help from my familiar to scribe scrolls on the sorcerer list since I couldn't do it on my own?
For scrolls I don't believe there is any way around the creator needing to have the spell personally.
The faerie dragon would need scribe scroll and would have to scribe it itself.
as long as your familiar can cast the spell it can help. this does not count SLA's or other abilities it has to be an actual spell
That's great, it says he casts spells as a third level sorcerer so could he essentially have access to help me wuth any spell on the sorcerer list?
No - scrolls can only be written by a person who can actually cast the spell, and remains the type of spell (Divine/Arcane) it was when created, even if the spell exists on another types spell list.
The familiar must be able to scribe scrolls to scribe a scroll from the familiars spell list.
No - scrolls can only be written by a person who can actually cast the spell, and remains the type of spell (Divine/Arcane) it was when created, even if the spell exists on another types spell list.
The familiar must be able to scribe scrolls to scribe a scroll from the familiars spell list.
And then the Witch would need UMD to use the scroll, if it's not also on the witches' spell list, of course. Mind, the faerie dragon, being a familiar, is probably well-disposed towards using scrolls on behlaf of the character - especially if the witch provides the materials (ie, gold cost) for the making of the scrolls in the first place.
Could I retrain his "Acrobatics" feat and bring in Scribe Scroll? If the GM allows retraining I mean.
For scrolls I don't believe there is any way around the creator needing to have the spell personally.
Actually, the PRD states:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).
If you have the crafting feat, anyone can supply the spell. Even another spell source like a scroll, potion, wand, etc.
EDIT:
@vhok: If the SLA is the spell, then it works. If it is only like the spell, it does not.
@Atalius: While the fairy dragon can supply spells, it can only supply the spells it knows. Not all spells usable by a sorcerer.
/cevah
For scrolls I don't believe there is any way around the creator needing to have the spell personally.Actually, the PRD states:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).If you have the crafting feat, anyone can supply the spell. Even another spell source like a scroll, potion, wand, etc.
EDIT:
@vhok: If the SLA is the spell, then it works. If it is only like the spell, it does not.@Atalius: While the fairy dragon can supply spells, it can only supply the spells it knows. Not all spells usable by a sorcerer.
/cevah
Ohh ok so any lvl 2 sorcerer spell he would know?
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Ohh ok so any lvl 2 sorcerer spell he would know?For scrolls I don't believe there is any way around the creator needing to have the spell personally.Actually, the PRD states:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).If you have the crafting feat, anyone can supply the spell. Even another spell source like a scroll, potion, wand, etc.
EDIT:
@vhok: If the SLA is the spell, then it works. If it is only like the spell, it does not.@Atalius: While the fairy dragon can supply spells, it can only supply the spells it knows. Not all spells usable by a sorcerer.
/cevah
Only those that the Faerie Dragon has learned, and AFAIK, only to the level at which he can cast them.
Ohh ok so any lvl 2 sorcerer spell he would know?Only those that the Faerie Dragon has learned, and AFAIK, only to the level at which he can cast them.
The fairy dragon's caster level is not relevant. Only the crafter's.
While RAW it could be made at any sufficient level with enough gold and spellcraft check, I have generally seen it only allowed up yo the crafter's caster level./cevah
For scrolls I don't believe there is any way around the creator needing to have the spell personally.Actually, the PRD states:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).If you have the crafting feat, anyone can supply the spell. Even another spell source like a scroll, potion, wand, etc.
EDIT:
@vhok: If the SLA is the spell, then it works. If it is only like the spell, it does not.@Atalius: While the fairy dragon can supply spells, it can only supply the spells it knows. Not all spells usable by a sorcerer.
/cevah
So does the 'get a friend to do it' loophole or the special requirement to know the spell for scribing scrolls win? I don't see how to prioritize these two rules.
For scrolls I don't believe there is any way around the creator needing to have the spell personally.Actually, the PRD states:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).If you have the crafting feat, anyone can supply the spell. Even another spell source like a scroll, potion, wand, etc.
You are using a general statement for creating wondrous items and weapons and applying it to scrolls. In the Creating Scrolls section of the PRD it states clearly that:
"The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires."
The creator has to prepare the spell or know it, if they do not, they cannot use another item or another caster to substitute for knowing the spell. Creating scrolls is restricted to the abilities of the scriber.
You are using a general statement for creating wondrous items and weapons and applying it to scrolls. In the Creating Scrolls section of the PRD it states clearly that:
"The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires."
The creator has to prepare the spell or know it, if they do not, they cannot use another item or another caster to substitute for knowing the spell. Creating scrolls is restricted to the abilities of the scriber.
It actually says that in all of the sections. Not just scrolls. It does not mean what you think it means.
Nothing actually requires you to have the spell. Access through other people or items is explicitly allowed. For all items.
Requirements: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind.
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.
If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator's level must be known.
There is nothing that limits the above rules. It applies to all items.
You are using a general statement for creating wondrous items and weapons and applying it to scrolls.For scrolls I don't believe there is any way around the creator needing to have the spell personally.Actually, the PRD states:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).If you have the crafting feat, anyone can supply the spell. Even another spell source like a scroll, potion, wand, etc.
Actually, that is located at the introduction where it tells about creating all magic items. Not in the section on creating wondrous items or in the section for creating weapons.
In the Creating Scrolls section of the PRD it states clearly that:
"The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires."
The creator has to prepare the spell or know it, if they do not, they cannot use another item or another caster to substitute for knowing the spell. Creating scrolls is restricted to the abilities of the scriber.
Are you saying you cannot omit prerequisites in wondrous items because it does not say you can in the section on wondrous items? Sorry. The rules for magic item creation do allow this.
To not allow it for scrolls, they would have to say you cannot use alternate sources of the spell. They did say you cannot omit the spell for +5 DC, which is allowed by the general section. They did not override the alternate source, so it still works.
/cevah
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Ohh ok so any lvl 2 sorcerer spell he would know?Only those that the Faerie Dragon has learned, and AFAIK, only to the level at which he can cast them.The fairy dragon's caster level is not relevant. Only the crafter's.
While RAW it could be made at any sufficient level with enough gold and spellcraft check, I have generally seen it only allowed up yo the crafter's caster level./cevah
1) Both the Witch and the Faerie Dragon are the caster for the item.When you make a magical item in collaboration all the participants are caster for it.
2) For potions, scrolls and wands it all depend on how you consider the caster level need for the final item.
To make a item with a CL of X the CL of the caster is a prerequisite?
If it is, you should use the CL of the one furnishing it as that CL is part of the prepared/know spell.
If it isn't you can't increase the difficulty by 5 to increase the missing prerequisite as you can do that only for prerequisites.
In any instance you are putting in a spell that has a specific CL, that of the creature that memorized it.
To go above that CL you need a way to do that. In the rules you have permission to go under the caster CL, but the final CL need to be high enough to cast the spell. You don't have permission to go above unless you increase the DC by 5.
You can't take the CL of the one the witch as she hasn't any CL for the spells that she hasn't memorized, so you need to take the Faerie Dragon CL.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself.
1) Both the Witch and the Faerie Dragon are the caster for the item.When you make a magical item in collaboration all the participants are caster for it.Ohh ok so any lvl 2 sorcerer spell he would know?Only those that the Faerie Dragon has learned, and AFAIK, only to the level at which he can cast them.The fairy dragon's caster level is not relevant. Only the crafter's.
While RAW it could be made at any sufficient level with enough gold and spellcraft check, I have generally seen it only allowed up yo the crafter's caster level./cevah
If the spell source is a wand, does that make it a caster also?
No. The crafter alone is the maker and sets the caster level. Further reading of the rules show that the spell, while used, is not cast when making an item.2) For potions, scrolls and wands it all depend on how you consider the caster level need for the final item.
To make a item with a CL of X the CL of the caster is a prerequisite?
The caster level of the crafter is not a prerequisite unless it shows up on the prerequisite line.
If it is, you should use the CL of the one furnishing it as that CL is part of the prepared/know spell.
The CL of the spell source has no bearing on the CL of the item.
If it isn't you can't increase the difficulty by 5 to increase the missing prerequisite as you can do that only for prerequisites.
However, the DC is set to a base of 5+CL. Upping the CL means an increased base DC and an increase of cost since you usually have the CL as a multiplying factor in setting the price.
In any instance you are putting in a spell that has a specific CL, that of the creature that memorized it. To go above that CL you need a way to do that. In the rules you have permission to go under the caster CL, but the final CL need to be high enough to cast the spell. You don't have permission to go above unless you increase the DC by 5.
Can you site that rule?
You can't take the CL of the one the witch as she hasn't any CL for the spells that she hasn't memorized, so you need to take the Faerie Dragon CL.
Again, the CL is set by the crafter, not the caster. The CL of the source is not relevant.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself.
OK. For the OP's question of making a scroll, the crafter is limited to his caster level for the scroll. For making other things, like a wondrous item, that limit is not there.
/cevah