I am trying to figure out a good way to get into this PrC.
I want to somewhat specialise in archery and take advantage of the Str to to hit aspect.
To do this I either need to go ranger so I can completely dump dex and get manyshot at ranger 6 before going into Sanguine Angel.
The other option is to go Fighter and actually have a dex high enough to pick up manyshot later.
If I go fighter I waste stats.
If I go ranger I have to be a human to get the requisite feats by level 6. I will need 4 as I need to pick up heavy armor prof.
Or I need to wait and only take my level 8 in SA.
If I go fighter I can take level 6 in SA with any race.
Has anyone made a Sanguine Angel and can give me some advice?
Haven't made one but a steelblood bloodrager should be as good as a ranger, and a slayer would be one feat better off - they can take rogue talent (weapon training or combat trick) as well as the first 2 ranger combat styles with their 3 talents from 2nd to 6th. The slayer sounds like the easiest way to split the difference between fighter and ranger.
There are a lot of feats requirement for this PrC, it is really made for fighters. You could do other classes of course but well, it is obviously made for fighter, considering most of the gray maiden are fighters (so they have easier to get into the class).
Now if you are starting at higher levels, it doesn't matter as much and go in with whatever you want to play.
So slayer gives you 5 feats by 5, but you need to wait to 6 to get manyshot. It does let you get into SA with any race at level 7.
1 Level behind the fighter, but lets me dump dex.
The other issue with this and the ranger is the fact that you can't wear heavy armor as you loose access to the ranger combat style.
Apparently this applies to the slayer as well.
I am unsure how the bloodrager is as good as the ranger, as you have to delay getting the archery feats, and have to have a high dex.
It basically gives you heavy armor prof and some spell casting, and armor training. Am I understanding that right?
Sorry - effectively as many feats (heavy armor prof & a bonus feat at 6th) as the ranger, not with the same advantages. But bloodrage does increase your strength by 4 which does take a little off the pressure there.
& yes ranger combat styles don't work with heavy armor for the most part. I think mithral full plate is heavy only as far as proficiency is concerned though so when you can afford to splash 20K on armor - you can use that feat you picked up and forgot about for several levels.
I agree that it certainly is made for fighters, even including ways to increase your armor training class feature.
It also allows you to dump dex and go TWF as a fighter.
That makes me cringe though at having dex ONLY to qualify for archery feats.
That is mainly what I am trying to get around.
Ah, that makes good sense.
I am laughing at the thought of a Raging Orc Sanguine Angel that is heavily optomized for strength.
18 pt buy, 22 after racial, 26 while rageing, 28 with a belt.
+2 Adaptive composite orc hornbow.
At level 8 when I can pick up the str to bows:
+8bab+9str+2weapon=+19 to hit, that is pretty good. I can only have point-blank shot at this point in terms of the bow.
Damage would be 2d6 +2 +9 = avg 18 per shot, which really isnt bad at all
Why would you suggest that bloodrager archetype over something like the armored hulk barbarian?
Specifically for the bloodline feat? Can you actually get any of the necessary feats that way?
I think slayer may be the way to go.
3 Bonus feats through the slayer talents, 2 from the archery ranger tree, gives me many shot and rapid shot by 6. The third to pick up rogue trick combat feat weapon focus, then my 3 normal feats on iron will, shield bash, and heavy armor prof.
Then by level 8 I am looking at:
22 after race Orc, +2 belt
+8bab +2bow +6str= +16 + 2 if studied target.
so in best case scenario:
+18,+13 which I can apply rapid shot to
Damage is 2d6+2+6+2=15 and double on the first attack.
This is not bad at all, considering I am also half decent with a sword and shield.
Level 7 feat would be point blank shot, level 9, improved twf
Level 8 slayer talent, precise shot.
That should work out decently well actually.
By level 9 I have really good archery and not bad at all sword and board, but I am missing PA which could hurt. I could pick that up at level 9 or 7 though.
Rage powers don't actually give bonus feats as far as I can remember. Most bloodrager bloodlines have iron will or weapon focus on their list & they get one per 6 levels. The arcane bloodline for protection from arrows (or resist energy) to shrug off return fire when in a rage stands out to me. The level 1 power is forgettable; might you want a familiar instead?
& yes, slayers with their actual skills seem better to me than fighters. They're certainly competent at the fighting.
I think slayer would be better, as even with 8 int I end up with 5 skills a level which would need a 16 on the fighter.
I suppose what I am ending up with here is trying to get the most SAD class I can with feat trees that are normally seriously MAD.
All you need is Str really in terms of doing what you want to do. Con is important as per usual, and wisdom, but you are going iron will anyway.
I wonder how the sanguine angel would stack up in the dpr olympics.
Or rather just a 2 level dip.
Probably still far behind some of the other insane options out there.