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Fun Wizard Hack


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


1st level wizard (universalist)
orc for greataxe proficiency or human using bonus feat

Buy a large sized greataxe.
Put the axe down.
Cast Enlarge on yourself.
Pick the axe up.
Use your Hand of the Apprentice ability to cause the axe to fly 30' at opponents with your Int bonus to hit and 3d6 for damage. No save. Stand safely behind the tanks and 1-hit every foe. With an 18 Int you can do this 7 times a day!

Bonus hack:
Soup your strength up to do 1.5x your bonus for 2-hand.
Get Power Attack feat when your BAB goes to +1 for an additional +3 dmg (Ability says you can't perform combat maneuvers with the attack, but this isn't a maneuver. Ask your DM regardless, but then again we're just talking about a silly hack so wth.)

Free Bonus hack:
While Enlarged, you can attack the front line from behind the tanks with reach and continue doing 3d6.


Well, you have 30' range, but will be subject to penalties for firing into melee and cover (those tanks you are behind wil provide cover to your enemies.) With the penalty to ac and dex for being large, and your weak hp, you will be an easy mark for range or reach using foes.

Power attack only applies to melee attacks, this is treated as a thrown weapon, so I suppose you could drop two feats to get deadly aim.

All in all, it sounds neat at first, but a little more thinking and it looks weak and dangerous to me.


Enlarge Person is a really awesome spell, but you don't need to go out of your way for Hand of the Apprentice to make excellent use of it. If you're using a reach weapon, you'll have 20 ft reach when enlarged and can take AOO's in that large area. Since you're using buff spells, you don't actually need a very high intelligence score and can just pump points into strength to make that melee attack more dangerous. This also doesn't lock you into universalist, letting you pick better schools or even other classes.

Bottom line, Enlarge Person is an awesome spell at low levels and easily the best buff spell around prior to Haste.


Java Man wrote:

Well, you have 30' range, but will be subject to penalties for firing into melee and cover (those tanks you are behind wil provide cover to your enemies.) With the penalty to ac and dex for being large, and your weak hp, you will be an easy mark for range or reach using foes.

Power attack only applies to melee attacks, this is treated as a thrown weapon, so I suppose you could drop two feats to get deadly aim.

All in all, it sounds neat at first, but a little more thinking and it looks weak and dangerous to me.

That's right on power attack, ok so scratch that bonus to the range, but it still applies to your 3d6 from behind the front line on melee.

I don't buy your point about having weak hp and poor AC though. We're talking about a wizard here. You could make that argument about any wizard standing behind the front line doing ranged magic or casting anything in battle. That doesn't invalidate this as a hack of a way to make a wizard capable of dishing out more damage than the fighter without burning his spells anymore than any other strategy a wizard wants to employ. I've always been amused by this as a way for a weak L1 wizard to blam folks for 3d6+ 7/day from range with his Int as a bonus to hit.


but the wizard did burn a spell for enlarge person...

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Or be a Warpriest with the Magic blessing.


Chess Pwn wrote:
but the wizard did burn a spell for enlarge person...

Also two rounds to prebuff, since you need to drop the axe as a move action, begin casting a 1 round spell as a standard action, finish casting the 1 round spell as a standard action, then pick the axe back up as a move action. Meaning you're only starting to fight on the 3rd turn of combat if you couldn't prebuff.


You can drop it as a free action, so you can drop free, enlarge, next turn pick up and attack.


Chess Pwn wrote:
You can drop it as a free action, so you can drop free, enlarge, next turn pick up and attack.

Sorry, I meant draw and drop. You're right that if you're already carrying it then you can drop as a free action.


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But wait, it gets better. Let's read the ability description closely:

"You cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you."

Note it doesn't say you have to be carrying it. It says "grasp". Now grasp has many meanings as a noun. Webster's uses the word control in describing possible definitions. I would say you control your great axe if it's in a weapon rack or perhaps on your mount or squire.

Now, assuming this definition of grasp fits, you could have the axe under your control, we'll say resting on top of your mount 10 miles away. Once you initiate Hand of the Apprentice, it must travel 10mi + 30' within the six seconds that represent a round. To do so, it must travel at a speed of 31,698,000 mph. That is over 4.7% of the speed of light and an astounding speed. An axe traveling at that speed would carry the force of 600 North Korean hydrogen bombs which will 1-hit any Pathfinder monster including a Tarrasque or all Tarrasques.

That's probably more damage than you need 7 times per day, so you may want to consider strapping it to an opponent's back and tying them to a wall facing you. That's definitely under your control in that position. You have your foe firmly in your grasp *cackle*. Use Hand of the Apprentice on your opponent. It won't have to travel far, BUT then in order to return to your hand, it must smash through your foe. Passing a large sized great axe through any being is bound to be damaging.

Anyway, just a couple more hacks to add to your arsenal, wizards.

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
The DM of wrote:
I would say you control your great axe if it's in a weapon rack or perhaps on your mount or squire.

No.


TOZ wrote:
The DM of wrote:
I would say you control your great axe if it's in a weapon rack or perhaps on your mount or squire.

No.

Speeds of 31,698,000 mph are hard for the human mind to fathom. I knew some people would have problem with this concept, but facts are always true.


The DM of wrote:
TOZ wrote:
The DM of wrote:
I would say you control your great axe if it's in a weapon rack or perhaps on your mount or squire.

No.

Speeds of 31,698,000 mph are hard for the human mind to fathom. I knew some people would have problem with this concept, but facts are always true.

Unfortunately Pathfinder doesn't feature damage based on object velocity so it's all a load of nothing. (See also, why the peasant railgun doesn't actually do damage).


Ok, how about this. You hold the large sized great axe. Use Hand of the Apprentice to hit someone with it. As soon as it hits, you use a quickened Dimension Door spell to pop directly behind them. The axe has NO CHOICE but to splatter its way through your foe to return to you. THEY'RE DEAD! Who's laughing at your L1 Wizard now!?!


Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Enlarge Person text states:

"Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage."

So even if you're holding your greataxe when the spell is cast, as soon as you throw it, it goes back to being a Medium, 1d12 weapon. When it returns to you, it stays that size, which means you'll suffer a penalty to attacks for using a differently-sized weapon for the rest of the spell's duration. A generous GM won't penalize hand of the apprentice attacks for that, but absolutely should enforce it on regular melee attacks.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

That was why he carries a Large axe normally. It's not enlarged, it's naturally Large.


Yes, Tim. You see that is part of wonder of this hack. You drop your already large sized great axe before you cast Enlarge. That's part of the genius, and it really is a genius idea. The facts coming in all agree so far.

Shadow Lodge

The DM of wrote:
I knew some people would have problem with this concept, but facts are always true.

Then the fact is that you do not have control of your axe if it's in a weapon rack. And the fact is that grasp does not mean that even if control did mean that.


TOZ wrote:
The DM of wrote:
I knew some people would have problem with this concept, but facts are always true.
Then the fact is that you do not have control of your axe if it's in a weapon rack. And the fact is that grasp does not mean that even if control did mean that.

Ok, I got it!!!

You have a castle 10 miles away. On top of the castle is your large sized great axe. You put one end of a Ring Gate on top of the castle within arm's length of your axe. Then you take the Ring Gate to the fight 10 miles away. You cast Enlarge, reach through, GRASP your axe, use Hand of the Apprentice, and BLAM!!! Six seconds later, the axe comes speeding in at 4.7% of the speed of light and nukes your foe.

You have to believe in this one, right?!?


The DM of wrote:
Ok, how about this. You hold the large sized great axe. Use Hand of the Apprentice to hit someone with it. As soon as it hits, you use a quickened Dimension Door spell to pop directly behind them. The axe has NO CHOICE but to splatter its way through your foe to return to you. THEY'RE DEAD! Who's laughing at your L1 Wizard now!?!

So where's the rule citation stating the spell does that or any other environmental rule does that?

I'll save you the trouble and answer for you: No where. Spells do what they say and nothing more. You don't get to start throwing around real world physics and expect things to behave like that in game.

Anyone who attempts to claim the Hand of the Apprentice works like that will rightfully be laughed out of the building.

Also quickened dimension door at level one?

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
The DM of wrote:
You have to believe in this one, right?!?

No. You're attempting to rules lawyer ridiculous interpretations out of the text. There is no rule for FTL travel increasing damage.

Rules should be interpreted in such a manner that the excellences embodied in achieving the lusory goal of the game are not undermined but are maintained and fostered.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
The DM of wrote:
Ok, how about this. You hold the large sized great axe. Use Hand of the Apprentice to hit someone with it. As soon as it hits, you use a quickened Dimension Door spell to pop directly behind them. The axe has NO CHOICE but to splatter its way through your foe to return to you. THEY'RE DEAD! Who's laughing at your L1 Wizard now!?!

Level wizard with quickened dimension door? And that is only the first problem with this.

I will leave you to your trolling, and whatever game this is that you are playing, cuz it sure as Hades ain't Pathfinder.


Can I at least get a 20d6 for damage? There should be a reward for creativity I think.

:)

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Come on guys......

I thought we agreed not to feed the trolls?

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I will certainly give you props for creativity, no doubt. No extra damage however. ;)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Jurassic Pratt wrote:

Come on guys......

I thought we agreed not to feed the trolls?

Successful Troll agreed to no such thing!


Ah, I missed the large part. Never mind. (I don't even want to think how many stats you're nerfing to get a suitable Strength for lugging that thing around and still keep a decent Int for wizarding...)

Shadow Lodge

Who said anything about wizarding?

Scarab Sages

"This soun's kin'a lik' th' drunken logic tha' made m' thin' 'f becomin' a w'zar'. The' I thou' 'bou' i', an'... BORIN'!"

Scarab Sages

Or you could, you know, be a wizard.


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This sounds a lot like my Wizard. He spends all his loot on rings of Three Wishes, and every day, he uses a wish to ignore arcane spell failure so he can wear full plate. Those of us who think outside the box are never appreciated!

Silver Crusade

I prefer Exploiter Wizard in PFS, get Spell Focus (Evocation) or whatever right off the bat, plus Signature Spell and Potent Arcana, and you're throwing 5d4 Burning Hands or 5d6 Shocking Grasps or Snowballs right at first level. Go Sorcerer for 2d6 lower, but more often per day.


The DM of wrote:
Yes, Tim. You see that is part of wonder of this hack. You drop your already large sized great axe before you cast Enlarge. That's part of the genius, and it really is a genius idea. The facts coming in all agree so far.

To be fair, you don't even need to drop the axe do you? Sure it'll grow when you enlarge to huge, but then shrink back to large when you throw it, and since you just need to be holding the weapon I think this works and saves you a move action.

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