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Is there a way to purchase skill ranks??


Rules Questions


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber

I've looked for an answer, and while I find rules for fixed costs like creating magic items, retraining, and even activities you can do in your downtime, I can't seem to find anything on point for my question.

Say you're not thrilled your Paladin is stuck w/ a base 2 skill points per level; you're not a human; and you're using your FCB for something else. So at 1st level, you put your 2 points into Diplomacy and Knowledge: Religion, as an example. Obviously when you level up, you can either keep putting your measly 2 points there, or maybe start increasing some of the other 8 (!) class skills you have, or any of the non-class skills.

Is there or is there not a rule that encompasses the ability to spend your hard-earned gold on increasing skills? Sure, I can house-rule it, but if I've missed something in the rules, I'd love it if someone could point me in the right direction!

Thanks.


Technically speaking +int headbands grant retroactive skill points (sort of, a headband that grants ranks in say spellcraft can't suddenly be swapped to diplomacy, you need a new headband for that). Other than that you can spend feats on Cunning (+1 skill point/level per instance of the feat taken). Beyond that you're SOL.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

A headband of vast intelligence would do the trick if you're looking for actual skill ranks. There are a number of magic items that give competence bonuses to certain skills as well.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber

Hmm. Thanks for the replies, but beyond expensive headbands, I was hoping for a more permanent and practical solution.

You must admit it's odd in a fantasy game not to be able to spend $ to increase skills, when we can do that here in the mundy world (e.g., learn martial arts, take up weightlifting w/ a trainer, go to college, etc. etc.).

House rule it is, though I'm not sure of what a good scaling HR would be.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There are several Ioun Stones that grant you a bonus Feat. They typically cost 5-10,000 gp.

Create a custom Ioun Stone of Human Spirit.

So you'd essentially be getting extra skills at the cost of 1,125-2,500 gp per skill rank.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You can also retrain skill ranks per the rules in Ultimate Campaign.


Well, Masterwork Tools can give you a +2 bonus to a skill at a cost of 50 gold. (That doesn't let you be 'trained' in something you're normally not, but it's quite affordable overall.) There are also magic items that can give bigger bonuses, but those take up slots and tend to be way more expensive.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:

There are several Ioun Stones that grant you a bonus Feat. They typically cost 5-10,000 gp.

Create a custom Ioun Stone of Human Spirit.

So you'd essentially be getting extra skills at the cost of 1,125-2,500 gp per skill rank.

Yikes, that's expensive! If I understand that feat, though, it caps at 4 skill ranks. I think I'm still leaning towards my house rule at this point: 800 gp per rank level in class skills, 1k gp per rank level in non-class skills; perhaps more for the "Trained only" crowd, I don't know.

So that 1st class skill rank might cost 800 gp, while the 2nd would cost 1600 gp.

EDIT: though my HR system gets ridiculously expensive at higher levels, now that I'm thinking about it more. This is why I want Paizo to craft a more elegant system ;-)

I appreciate the idea of using an Ioun Stone, though.


For a HR you might compare to the cost/time for learning a new language in the retraining rules. Adding a language is part of what one rank in linguistics does.


Might take a look at Background Skills optional rules. Everyone gets 2 extra skillpoints per level to spend on the less important skills, like Knowledge Craft Profession or Appraise.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber
Java Man wrote:
For a HR you might compare to the cost/time for learning a new language in the retraining rules. Adding a language is part of what one rank in linguistics does.

That appears to be 200 gp/level for 1 skill rank, which is considerably cheaper than my idiotic HR proposal. But I worry that could trivialize gaining skill ranks in pretty much "all the good stuff", which would defeat Paizo's system of x skill points per level per Y class.

To be fair, I think Paizo has been too stingy w/ skill point distributions anyway, so maybe somewhere between those 2 extremes I can find a happy middle ground.

@ toastedamphibian: yes, I had almost forgotten about those background skills optional rules. Though there's not much of anything I really want on that list :(

Anyway, thanks for the new ideas.


Use the Cunning feat from the Villain Codex. Add it to some magic items or give it for free as a bonus feat to the PC's you think are underserved in the area of skill points. Allow it multiple times if you like...


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3rd Party Feat: Open-Minded.

Benefit: You gain 1 skill point for every Hit Die you possess. You gain 1 skill point whenever you gain a Hit Die (such as when you gain a level). You spend these skill points as normal. You cannot exceed the normal maximum point for your level in any skill.

No prerequisites.

Also, talk to your GM. 2 skill points/level is absurdly pathetic for a non-INT class. I always make the minimum 4 except for INT classes.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber
JoeElf wrote:
Use the Cunning feat from the Villain Codex. Add it to some magic items or give it for free as a bonus feat to the PC's you think are underserved in the area of skill points. Allow it multiple times if you like...

Gah, talk about a "Sophie's Choice" moment. Feats are even more precious than skills, and it might kill me to take this otherwise cool (and unknown to me, so thanks for that) feat.

What did you mean though by "add it to some magic items"? Can you add feats to magic items such (comparable to an Ioun Stone??) that you don't have to waste a precious feat at level up? B/c that could work I guess.

@ Zhayne: that Open-Minded feat seems similar to Cunning. And I agree about 2 skill points per level...

I could have up to 4 w/ a human paladin using his FCB for skill points, but I have an aasimar paladin using his FCB for that ever so slight bonus to morale (for a whopping +3 at 18th level, but I have a Slayer w/ sucky Will saves so every little thing that can help!).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber

One thing I have done in the past, is to use the traits system to tailor the skill selection of a character class to what I want it to be. For example I had a sorcerer whom I wanted to be a diplomat as well. I used traits to add Diplomacy and Sense motive to his class skill list. I also sometimes use the Additional Traits feat to further expand the available class skill choices.

I know this doesn't expand the amount of skill ranks you have, but it will expand the class skills you have to choose from.

I hope this helps.


BenS wrote:
What did you mean though by "add it to some magic items"? Can you add feats to magic items such (comparable to an Ioun Stone??) that you don't have to waste a precious feat at level up? B/c that could work I guess.

Yes, I mean if you are the GM or you can talk your GM into it, you could build custom Ioun stones or use the +1 [presumably specific] Feat ability on other items (or with GM permission use the add 1.5 * the lesser bonus cost in crafting). As an example, Gloves of Weapon Specialization aren't any more powerful than Gloves of Dueling, IMO. Or create Gloves of Dueling & Weapon Specialization...

And since you mention how precious feats are, consider something to bolster feats.

Use some consolidation rules:
http://michaeliantorno.com/feat-taxes-in-pathfinder/

Give a free Skill Focus to characters.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eaY-yXn8-dc3WlngVpq51RVE8zOl__9sAA_fmrF 2XIY/

Note: this is heresy to the rules purists [and certainly banned in PFS], so treat my answer as if we were in Homebrew.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber

@ ElyasRavenwood: yes, I've done that w/ the Seeker trait on my human Witch so she gets Perception as a class skill ;-)

@ JoeElf, I'm not quite a rule purist per se, b/c I believe in tweaks, but as this is my first attempt at PF characters, I'd like to stick to the proscribed boundaries Paizo built. If I end up having a frustrating time, I will be freer w/ options w/ a 2nd attempt.

Disclaimer: as a GM in 3.5, all PCs had a minimum 4 + Int bonus skill points. So I could certainly go that route again. But, I was curious if Paizo put in some common-sense rules to offset their stinginess w/ skill points. Maybe a future release, we'll see.

I might also, in the future, check out the consolidated skills option in PF Unchained, which I own. For now, though, I'm going to grin and bear it and see how it goes.

Thanks to everyone's input.

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