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Crafted grenade DCs and the 'Grenade Expert' ability


Rules Questions

Lantern Lodge

Grenades:
Grenades are thrown weapons that detonate in an explosive radius when they reach the target. A grenade’s listing on Table 7–7: Grenades shows its explosion radius. Some grenades have additional effects, such as blinded or entangled, that apply only to creatures in the explosion radius that fail a Reflex save against the grenade. The DC of the save is equal to 10 + half the grenade’s item level + your Dexterity modifier. Any penalty you take to your attack roll also applies to this save DC.

bombard-grenade expert:
You increase the range increment of your thrown grenades by 5 × your Strength bonus. In addition, you’re able to salvage enough materials to create a grenade without paying for it. Creating a grenade takes 10 minutes. You can create any grenade whose item level is less than or equal to your soldier level, but this grenade is unstable and only you can use it effectively. If anyone else tries to use the grenade, it is a dud. You can have only one grenade created by this ability at one time (if you create a new grenade using this ability, the old grenade no longer works).

crafting (emphasis added):
Crafting items requires you to have access to tools and a workshop or similar space. Most starships have an appropriate area set aside, and such space can be rented at the same price as lodgings in major cities (with the size of the lodging being equivalent to the size of the workshop, which limits the size of items that can be constructed and how many people can work on a single item at one time). Creating an item normally has a base time of 4 hours. If your number of ranks in the appropriate skill to craft an item exceeds that item’s level by 5 or more, you can craft that item in half the base time. If your ranks exceed the item level by 10 or more, you can create the item in one quarter the base time. Objects larger than a Medium creature take twice as long to craft for each size category larger. To create an item, you must have UPBs with a total value equal to the price of the item to be created. At the GM’s discretion, you can scavenge similar items for parts, allowing 10% of the scavenged item’s value to count toward the UPBs needed. Even magic and hybrid items are created using UPBs, as the Mysticism skill is used to form the materials into runes and specific implements for rituals utilized in the creation of magic devices. Custom-built equipment has a few advantages over massproduced items. If you have a skill that allows you to repair an item you crafted, you can do so in half the normal time. When determining the hardness, Hit Points, and saving throws of an item you have crafted, treat its item level as if it were 2 higher. (For more about calculating these values, see Breaking Objects on page 409.)

A grenade's DC is 10 + half the grenade's item level + Dex mod. Crafted items are treated as being 2 item levels higher than the original. If this is true, then the DC of crafted grenades should be higher than purchased ones. Is this correct?

As a follow-up, does this mean that all grenade-expert-made grenades should also have their DC's similarly increased?


I believe the clause about saving throws of the item means any saving throw the item make such as to avoid a spell's effect are increased, not that the item has a higher DC.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I agree that the modifier is to the item’s saving throw, not the saving throw someone else makes against the item. The section referenced on pg. 409 is all about destroying an item and selecting what the saving throw of the item is for attacks against it.

Even if you were to convince someone to allow the other interpretation, the Bombard Grenade rules don’t follow any of the normal crafting rules. The bonus for crafting your own items would not apply since that grenade is created not crafted.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Design Lead

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
baggageboy wrote:
I believe the clause about saving throws of the item means any saving throw the item make such as to avoid a spell's effect are increased, not that the item has a higher DC.

Correct.

Lantern Lodge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
I believe the clause about saving throws of the item means any saving throw the item make such as to avoid a spell's effect are increased, not that the item has a higher DC.
Correct.

Thank you for the clarification!


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
I believe the clause about saving throws of the item means any saving throw the item make such as to avoid a spell's effect are increased, not that the item has a higher DC.
Correct.

Locally we have been interpreting it the other way. Needs to be FAQed.


Bigguyinblack wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
I believe the clause about saving throws of the item means any saving throw the item make such as to avoid a spell's effect are increased, not that the item has a higher DC.
Correct.
Locally we have been interpreting it the other way. Needs to be FAQed.

I don't believe a FAQ is necessary in this case, as the very next sentence after the line about determining hardness, Hit Points, and saving throws directs you to the section on Breaking Objects to learn more about the values being affected.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
baggageboy wrote:
I believe the clause about saving throws of the item means any saving throw the item make such as to avoid a spell's effect are increased, not that the item has a higher DC.
Correct.

So does this grenade count as a "free crafted item" or as a "bonus grenade of appropriate level from having this ability."

The way this reads is that the PC isn't actually crafting anything, they're just assembling a makeshift bomb (ala Alchemist) and they
can just make it a standard grenade up to their level.

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