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I'm reading this now (preparing to run this week).
This is gonna run long isn't it? Another Starship Combat with, again, differences. Paizo - at this point every combat does NOT have to be "different". Players and GMs are still learning the rules. A bog standard combat is tough enough :-). Although the description of the NPC actions in combat IS appreciated.
Man, the fight with Yotto looks like it is going to be awfully, awfully hard. As in quite possible TPK. The group is mostly Level 1 at this point (hardly surprising). Almost certainly no magic weapons. Some of the characters are likely totally out of luck (not enough strength to wield the force batons, armed with non energy weapons). And that confusion effect could be easily deadly.
No way this is the same CR as the Sand Brute in 1-03. Or the Xill. No way in heck.
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This Yotto fight is going to be even harder than the Sand Brute which had to have the locals ready to rescue the PC's the fight was that tough.
Im going to have the VC at the start drop some hints to make sure there are energy weapons considered as the starting kit I think!
The starship combat is going to be tough no matter what, but I think this looks more manageable than the drone-ship fight AND it is Starfinder - I think Starship combat should be a given at this point!
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I ran this tonight and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. But with some severe caveats on that.
It didn't quite run long but I was exercising some considerable control to achieve that. Make sure that you have 2 to 2 1/2 hours left when you board the ship. In our 4 hour slot that meant keeping the conversation with the other Pathfinder ship relatively short and my making sure that the starship combat didn't go long.
There were 3 players (well, after we split the table into two :-)). I strongly encouraged them to take the Technomancer (they needed a Computers/Engineering guy). A level 2 soldier, a level 1 soldier, and a level 2 Envoy with the stamina recovery thing.
The 4 player adjustments are quite good for this scenario. If anything, they err on the side of being a little TOO good.
By the time the characters got to the Captains cabin they pretty much knew exactly what they were facing. They even considered leaving the driftdead to its fate but greed got to them (lost loot? Noooooo).
They were a little low on resources but not very (I'd allowed them one ten minute rest).
1/2 the party ended up confused (about par, really). Fortunately, they never rolled any of the really bad effects (confusion is always a VERY random spell).
The technomancer did well over 1/2 the damage to the driftdead. Can't expect everybody to have force missile. The batons were a life saver but even with them the rest of the group was doing fairly low levels of damage.
I stand by my opinion that the boss is definitely higher than CR3. The authors had gone out of their way to give the PCs advantages over it and, even with all that, it was by far the hardest fight of all the CR3 fights in the first 4 scenarios and Quest (yes, I've run all of them multiple times).
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Starship Combat - I slightly cheat to speed things up :-). I eye ball and wing the NPC rolls and don't worry if I'm off by 1 or 2. I don't have them do any particularly complicated stuff. And I call the fight when the outcome is "obvious" to me (for this particular fight I actually had a very good in game excuse since the PCs had gone out of their way to befriend the Vesk, but I do this in general once the combat is getting to the hour mark).
Without the 4 player adjustment I think the final fight is going to be very swingy and depend hugely on the saves vs confusion and the rolls made to determine what the confusion does. About 1/2 the party will fail their roll. That makes confusion lock a real possibility.
Also will depend a lot on how many of the characters are level 2.
The group is likely to prevail but any level 1 techomancers are going down and quite possibly dying. That thing hits fairly hard.
If the GM does incorporeal shenanigans it will be still more difficult :-).
One thing that wasn't at all clear to me was whether the confusion effect was blocked by the force field. I ruled that it was blocked.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I am going to run this in a couple of hours, but so far seems like a 5-star review for me, the scenario just manages to push all my buttons, it is thoughtful in so many areas. I am honestly very impressed, let's see what my players say.
I am had really strong FF7 flashbacks and would have gotten a heart attack if the writer had included a blond crossdresser.
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I ran this one on Saturday for a pretty of six, and Yotto was rough. I think the party blew four serums of healing, and they only survived because they had a technomancer. The worst part was that half the party just had to delay all combat; without an energy weapon or the strength to swing a baton, they just had to watch their friends slowly die.
40 incorporeal hit points plus confusion aura plus a nasty attack makes for TPK of an encounter. I suspect Groves intended the encounter to occur while the ship was in the Drift, but that must have been changed in editing.
Venture-Captain, Illinois—Fairview Heights
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Don't forget that the players come across an Idaran Force Training Baton, which is a force effect weapon (if they can wield it) to help with the fight against Yotto. It requires 12str to trigger the force effect, but the effect is automatic and it counts as an operative weapon. That said, one force baton and a 25% chance per combat round to have the etheric storm hazard in effect, do make this incredibly challenging. Like PFS, odd numbers of party members combined with an odd numbered APL do put you at a disadvantage in this scenario.
Venture-Agent, Texas—Houston
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Don't forget that the players come across an Idaran Force Training Baton, which is a force effect weapon (if they can wield it) to help with the fight against Yotto. It requires 12str to trigger the force effect, but the effect is automatic and it counts as an operative weapon. That said, one force baton and a 25% chance per combat round to have the etheric storm hazard in effect, do make this incredibly challenging. Like PFS, odd numbers of party members combined with an odd numbered APL do put you at a disadvantage in this scenario.
I think you underestimate the number of Starfinder characters with 11 or less Str.
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I haven't read the adventure, only played it, but I'd say that it probably can't damage the force field. I just reread the force field description, and it says that the field deactivates when the temp HP get down to 0. So if the thing could damage the field that was containing it, then it could have deactivated it for a round and escaped at some point. Which means it probably can't damage it.
So yes, if a group all has brown force fields (highly unlikely at low sub-tier, but I supposed it could happen at 3-4), then that combat becomes trivial. But if even one of them doesn't have one, then the creature can probably figure out to target that person just by visually seeing the force fields and knowing not to attack them.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I suspect not, a starship battery powered forcefield is pretty much a deus ex machina.
The creature also has a ranged attack that will damage/overwhelm player's forcefields given enough time. And frankly, I see no rule that they can't damage the forcefields with melee attacks (I just assume that the plot forcefield was absurdly overcharged and regenerated too much).
Also, the creature can just walk through walls if necessary and wait.
Chances are also pretty good, that other confused characters will damage themselves or others.
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We ran this with one 2nd level Operative and 3 1st level Ysoki so yep, had 1 magic weapon to fight with. Luckily, one of the Ysoki was a Star Shaman who hadn't used any spells yet. We had one guy go down because he'd had to be in the room and got stuck trying not to give cover. That was our only setback, though the look on our GM's face when he realized we couldn't use force batons was priceless. He was even pointing it out to other GMs at the con, which did get me a bit anxious, but then cheerful afterward. I think the only damage I took was hitting myself while confused (and taking Full Defense).
That said, the scenario wasn't overly tough. We determined where the battles could be, helped by clues and scanners. Being paranoid at 1st without a dedicated melee person, we then camped far away down the corridors. We took turns opening doors and running like scared little mice (being that we were both). Remote Hacking helped us open the Xill's door from far away enough we had it down to half its h.p. by the time it got to us, when we naturally scattered so it couldn't take full attacks or focus on one of us. Not saying we weren't at risk for bad rolls turning combats bad fast, but it & the undead shouldn't be worrisome for most parties unless they barge along, perhaps locking themselves up in cramped formations.
The spaceship battle was pretty easy, even tedious as I've found them all to be (6?)(maybe because I've been with groups balanced for the non-Captain roles). There's that initial tension, but then you realize the numbers favor PCs too severely. I understand it may need to be that way, since all the PC eggs are in that basket, but there may as well be a narrative method to bypass them rather than the slog of rolling. The RPing or atmospheric aspects have been decent in them, so there's that.
The range advantage w/ speed made it simple to kite the Vesk, often with our rear pointed toward him. I think we ended w/ two damage to our repaired force fields and maybe as much to our hull. Arguably, our biggest advantage (for scanning inside the ship as well) was our tech skills giving us the tactical knowledge to choose wisely.
Good atmosphere throughout, and we weren't just scared because of our low levels, but the goo & gore too. So a solid experience, just not the OMG I'm seeing from some of these posts.
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I'm reading this now (preparing to run this week).
This is gonna run long isn't it? Another Starship Combat with, again, differences. Paizo - at this point every combat does NOT have to be "different". Players and GMs are still learning the rules. A bog standard combat is tough enough :-). Although the description of the NPC actions in combat IS appreciated.
I disagree I have not met a single player who has liked the starship combat rules. Most say they are OK but take to long. The only thing saving them from not being a one hour bore fest is that each is slightly different.
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Prepping to run this in a couple of days. I, too, am a little bit worried for some of my local players in the Driftdead fight, but the fact that confusion only lasts 2 rounds is a slightly mitigating factor I guess?
As for the starship combat, the author gave the PCs a rather neat weapon to use (that I would mention to any science officer upon their first attempt at a scan of the area)
A damaged asteroid deals 4d8 damage to starships in adjacent hexes. The struck asteroid is then removed from the map and poses no further obstacle or threat.
Basically, the PCs can try to lure the Honorbound into a minefield and then start setting them off - possibly a few chain-reactions too, given their placement.
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Played this recently. The driftdead fight was terryfingly close to TPK since we had no casters (soldier-2, soldier-?, solarian-2, drone mechanic-?, and an envoy-2), and a total of two force batons plus one semiautomatic pistol with a called fusion. Four characters got confused. Two shot each other while confused (one critted). The driftdead made about 16-18 attacks, and only missed twice. Both soldiers and the solarian were dropped to 0 hp twice, and the mechanic, his drone, and the envoy were dropped once. The only things that saved us were the resolve mechanic that allowed us to get back to the fight, one use of welcome to Starfinder boon, and that one soldier pulled back to the corridor, forcing the driftdead briefly to single attacks instead of that deadly full-attack combo. Action economy prevented us from recovering the batons or energy weapons once their users dropped, since anyone who moved to pick them up was knocked out by the driftdead before the weapon could be used. The envoy was the last person standing, and had one bullet left in the pistol.
The confusion effect combined with small quarters meant most of us were dropped within a step or two of each other. The thing had incredible attack bonus compared to our AC.
I agree with Arutema about low Strength scores. IIRC we had two characters with Strength 12+.
Other than that, the scenario is fine. The fight with Honorbound wasn't tough. We took the Pegasus, played according to the rules given (took about 15-20 minutes real time) and departed with everyone's honor unsullied. Searching the wreck was fun/creepy, and I hope there would have been even more time to devote to playing that. After the driftdead, the last fight was almost a cakewalk. One soldier bravely (accidentally) engaged the Xill in close combat and got paralyzed and implanted while everyone else riddled it with bullets and lasers and the solarian did his stuff.
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Just curious how people handled the friendly banter with the Manta Corps? I know it's a very small part of the scenario, but I'm not sure how to introduce it in a way that doesn't appear forced.
I've run this 4 times, each time I've went about it slightly different, from just telling the PCs about the Manta Corp people to doing social encounter, and each time it feels out of place, but I'm not really sure how it can't because of the nature of where the encounter is and how it takes place.
Starfinder Society Developer
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Just curious how people handled the friendly banter with the Manta Corps? I know it's a very small part of the scenario, but I'm not sure how to introduce it in a way that doesn't appear forced.
I would use it as a way of breaking up the tension between the mission briefing and reaching the destination. It's meant to showcase that it takes time to travel in the Drift, and add a sense of realism to the setting as a result.
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Just curious how people handled the friendly banter with the Manta Corps? I know it's a very small part of the scenario, but I'm not sure how to introduce it in a way that doesn't appear forced.I would use it as a way of breaking up the tension between the mission briefing and reaching the destination. It's meant to showcase that it takes time to travel in the Drift, and add a sense of realism to the setting as a result.
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks, Thurston. I understand the purpose and value of it, I'm more just trying to brainstorm ideas of how to implement it in a natural way. Things like who initiates the call, how does the banter start, where on their ship are the PCs when it happens, do the two groups talk all together or are their more one-on-one conversations, etc. I'm wondering if it might actually work best for any banter to take place as the two groups are waiting by their ships getting ready to board, since they'll be in natural close contact then.
I'm probably overthinking the whole thing, but if I don't prep something it'll be "So there's this other ship, right? And these cool fish guys? And then they start chatting with you. Go!" :)
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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Having run it before, I’ve been thinking about how I could improve in this area.
Now I think that I would start with mentioning the other ship being on a parallel course. Then talk a little bit about how everything settles down on ship after launch, and it gets boring.
Then you could have the Kalo Deepspeaker Alluguoth hail them, saying they have quite a bit of travel time, and how time flows much more smoothly when exchanging pleasant conversation.
Have each of them introduce themselves briefly, showing off Muncher and the trident, and then see where the conversation leads.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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When I played, the conversation with the Kalo put me in mind of the last communications between the Sidonia and the Aposimz, which gave it a much more somber feel than I think was intended. When I run it tomorrow, I'll try to make it lighter.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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One thing we thought of when we played through was just running extension cords from our own ship to power the doors on this one. We meta-decided not to because it would break the story, but is there an actual reason the party can't do this?
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One thing we thought of when we played through was just running extension cords from our own ship to power the doors on this one. We meta-decided not to because it would break the story, but is there an actual reason the party can't do this?
I just told my players the batteries were on a different current and a different type (D instead of AA for example) and it would take too long to adjust them.
But one thing I did allow was once the first door was open allowing them to make a engineering check to disable the door in the open position and just switch the same battery to the bridge.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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But one thing I did allow was once the first door was open allowing them to make a engineering check to disable the door in the open position and just switch the same battery to the bridge.
The challenge with this is that the scenario specifically states that a battery can only open one door. Jamming the Mess Hall door once it has been opened will not work to open the Bridge Door.
See the section called "Door Access" on page 15.
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The challenge with this is that the scenario specifically states that a battery can only open one door. Jamming the Mess Hall door once it has been opened will not work to open the Bridge Door.See the section called "Door Access" on page 15.
I'm not sure where you get that jamming the mess hall door wouldn't work. While that section says that you can't use the same battery to power both doors, and I certainly wouldn't allow a party to run extension cords from their ship (would they even have enough extension cords for such a purpose? My opinion is no.) There is absolutely nothing in the scenario that would speak against jamming the door and using one battery.
Having played this scenario and run it five times this is the solution we came up with when I played it and 3 of my 5 tables decided likewise.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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For reference:
Door Access: The PCs need to connect a functioning battery to the terminal labeled “Mess” to power the door to the mess hall (area B9), and they need to connect another battery to the terminal labeled “Bridge” to power the doors to the bridge (area B10), where the data they seek is currently locked. Functional batteries can be found in the sparring room’s sparring dummy in area B3 and the captain’s powered armor in area B6. Only these batteries work with the kasatha’s impromptu system; if a PC attempts to use a battery from a weapon (or similar), it proves insufficient and is drained with no effect.
How can a party get the door open to jam it without using the battery? The door is locked and the only way to open it is to using one of the two batteries found on the ship.
So the party does use a battery to open the Mess Hall door and jam it open. They still can't use the same battery to open the bridge door. Again because it is what is defined in the scenario.
Having played this scenario and run it five times this is the solution we came up with when I played it and 3 of my 5 tables decided likewise.
The solution is not valid in the confines of the scenario as it is written.
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How can a party get the door open to jam it without using the battery? The door is locked and the only way to open it is to using one of the two batteries found on the ship.So the party does use a battery to open the Mess Hall door and jam it open. They still can't use the same battery to open the bridge door. Again because it is what is defined in the scenario.
You are acting as though the scenario is telling you that once a battery is attached it can't be detached and attached somewhere else. That can't possibly be true because you use a battery that was previously either powering a sparing dummy or energy field is used to power either the mess or bridge (but not both simultaneously.
Door Access: The PCs need to connect a functioning battery to the terminal labeled “Mess” to power the door to the mess hall (area B9), and they need to connect another battery to the terminal labeled “Bridge” to power the doors to the bridge (area B10), where the data they seek is currently locked. Functional batteries can be found in the sparring room’s sparring dummy in area B3 and the captain’s powered armor in area B6. Only these batteries work with the kasatha’s impromptu system; if a PC attempts to use a battery from a weapon (or similar), it proves insufficient and is drained with no effect.
You seem to be reading this to mean that they can't connect a battery to the "mess" and then unplug that same battery and reconnect it to the "bridge" all the bolded section reads to me, however, is that you can't use one battery to power both the "mess" and "bridge" simultaneously, not that you can't power the "mess" jam the door open and then use the same battery to power the "bridge." Your reading that once a battery is attached it can no longer be detached to power something else is not consistent with how any detachable battery works nor is it the only valid reading of the bolded section.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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How can a party get the door open to jam it without using the battery? The door is locked and the only way to open it is to using one of the two batteries found on the ship.So the party does use a battery to open the Mess Hall door and jam it open. They still can't use the same battery to open the bridge door. Again because it is what is defined in the scenario.
You are acting as though the scenario is telling you that once a battery is attached it can't be detached and attached somewhere else. That can't possibly be true because you use a battery that was previously either powering a sparing dummy or energy field is used to power either the mess or bridge (but not both simultaneously.
Door Access: The PCs need to connect a functioning battery to the terminal labeled “Mess” to power the door to the mess hall (area B9), and they need to connect another battery to the terminal labeled “Bridge” to power the doors to the bridge (area B10), where the data they seek is currently locked. Functional batteries can be found in the sparring room’s sparring dummy in area B3 and the captain’s powered armor in area B6. Only these batteries work with the kasatha’s impromptu system; if a PC attempts to use a battery from a weapon (or similar), it proves insufficient and is drained with no effect.You seem to be reading this to mean that they can't connect a battery to the "mess" and then unplug that same battery and reconnect it to the "bridge" all the bolded section reads to me, however, is that you can't use one battery to power both the "mess" and "bridge" simultaneously, not that you can't power the "mess" jam the door open and then use the same battery to power the "bridge." Your reading that once a battery is attached it can no longer be detached to power something else is not consistent with how any detachable battery works nor is it the only valid reading of the bolded section.
Yes that is my reading and the answer is in the in bold text. We already know how batteries work in Starfinder is different than our real world. I will italicize the word in the sentence that makes your solution invalid.
Door Access: The PCs need to connect a functioning battery to the terminal labeled “Mess” to power the door to the mess hall (area B9), and they need to connect another battery to the terminal labeled “Bridge” ...
So the same battery cannot be used. Another battery has to be used to open the bridge. The batteries are connected in series to provide enough power to both doors.
I will say my initial reading was once a battery was connected and the door opened, the battery was drained. But after more thought, I realized both batteries are needed to open both doors.
I agree, it is a railroad job so the party has to deal with the undead creature.
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Right so another (differnt) battery is needed for the bridge. Glad you agree that jamming the door is not a valid solution for this adventure.
If you want to power both simultaneously you need two batteries there's nothing that precludes the same battery powering one location or the other. And saying i agree that jamming isn't a valid solution doesn't make it so(not only is it not true, it's also intentionally antagonistic).
"...several dead, brick-sized starship batteries are stacked on metal shelves. The topmost row is hooked up to an exposed power terminal labeled “Mess” with a black marker. Another power terminal is labeled “Bridge.” there's nothing in this section that suggests the batteries are in series or that the batteries are different such that one of the two batteries is only for the bridge and the other is for the mess.
Beyond that, it is actually impossible to have two batteries when you enter the mess for the first time, so just by the flow of the adventure you have to be able to enter the mess with one battery since the key to get into the captain's quarters is located within the mess and the captain's quarters is where you find the second battery. So in order for your reading to be true you would have to be arguing that the mess is independently powerable such that you can get into it but in order to get into the bridge you need to power both the mess and the bridge which isn't supported by the sentence you keep citing (no mention of connecting the two batteries, no mention of the power terminals being connected, etc. etc.)
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Ok. We have to agree to disagree.
I don't see your reading how the doors are to operate. I don't believe the adventure is meant to bypass the undead encounter in the captains quarter by simply jamming the mess door and doing an engineering check. PC can't do a check on the wiring. How does a GM determine the necessary DC to jam the door? It still takes another battery to open the bridge.
For me "another" battery has a very clear meaning. As GMs we should run the adventure as it is written. Is there a mention of an engineering check to jam or other wise mess with it? If PCs mess with wiring at all they get a nasty shock.
If I ever run it again I will run it as I understand it to be written.
But enough time has been spent on this difference of opinion.
Future GMs can read our discussion and decided what direction they will go.
Looking forward to the next discussion.
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My party did not bypass the undead encounter even though I allowed them to disable the mess doors after they opened it through an engineering check.
They knew they were supposed to bring bodies and items back with them. They were unsure what was required. One of the items required to receive the second fame points is the captains space suit. So bypassing the undead encounter also means the party loses a fame&reputation point.
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They knew they were supposed to bring bodies and items back with them. They were unsure what was required. One of the items required to receive the second fame points is the captains space suit. So bypassing the undead encounter also means the party loses a fame&reputation point.
Actually they can bypass the undead encounter and still get the second fame and reputation, they just lose the credits. Per the second reputation section:
"any item (including the powered armor) of the captain from area B6,"
Under the Treasure section it states, "A PC who succeeds at a DC 16 Perception check (DC 18 in Subtier 3–4) also identifies a hidden storage chamber along the sides of the captain’s bed. The container has a several of the captain’s personal effects, along with a credstick containing 500 credits (1,000 credits in Subtier 3–4) that the captain planned on using to treat his crew once they returned to Absalom Station." (emphasis mine.) So they don't need the powered armor specifically, this stuff in the hidden compartment appears to work.
Since the captain's body is on the floor, there is nothing blocking the party from going to the hidden storage chamber on the sides of the captain's bed from there they can retrieve effects for the secondary success condition.
They would still get the reduced credits, however, as that section reads:
"Rewards: If the PCs fail to defeat the driftdead in this room,
reduce their credits earned by the amount listed below.
Subtier 1–2: Reduce each PC’s credits earned by 159.
Out of Subtier: Reduce each PC’s credits earned by 229.
Subtier 3–4: Reduce each PC’s credits earned by 300."
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So when I ran this scenario, I had many issues with the PCs trying to be creative in their problem solving. Shame on them, yeah?
At any rate, I did change a few things about the scenario on the fly. But kept the intent of the scenario pretty much unchanged. First thing the PCs did when boarding the ship was head right for the captains cabin.
PC: "We follow the blood trail."
ME: "Okay, you come to a door that is obviously locked with a solid red light above a card reader."
PC: "We hack that lock."
ME: "Okay but it looks very secure."
PC: "30?"
Now I know they are suppose to need the key card, but there is no logical reason for any room on this ship to have a lock on it that a DC30 couldn't open. So I let them in to fight the undead. This really didn't change the flow of the adventure at all. In fact it strengthened their belief that the undead was the only threat on board. And they were under the impression that the rest was just going to be solving the puzzle of the doors.
Speaking of; Next they did like every other logical thinking PC did, and jammed the mess room door and tried moving the battery. Believing the intent of the scenario was to have both batteries in place, I simply told the engineer that while the one battery had enough power to open the single door it wasn't enough to open the double doors. So they'd need another battery. So they continued to search the rest of the ship that they'd not gotten to yet.
All in all, it worked out well, and I believe they had a good time despite me continually telling them they couldn't do something for some unknown reason.
Venture-Agent, Netherlands
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Just ran it today!
It went fairly well and my 4 player party loved the setting. The Driftdead was easy for them as the Technomancer blew 5 full round magic missiles on it and I hit twice in 6 rounds of full attacks and everyone saved for confusion (Tier 3/4).
The starship combat was horrendous...90mins in and I'd dealt them 1HP damage and they had dealt me 3HP damage total. This lead me to call it with the reasoning being if you had survived so long against a Vesk, you were worthy and honourable.
One hilarious moment was them offering up the rule noone could shoot the asteroid to the Vesk which he gladly accepted!
All in all a fantastic scenario and that Xill is nasty and implanted someone leading to an exact replica of the scene from Alien but this time it was the Android that was on the table getting cut open to get the larvae out!
