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Reflex saves while carrying living creatures


Rules Questions


Let's say your heroic character is rescuing a baby. You have them all trussed up in your cloak and you are running from the BBEG.

Fireball happens.

Does the baby count as an Attended Object (using your saves instead of its own)?

What if you have Evasion? You completely dodge the fireball, does the baby still take damage?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Does the GM have evasion from the dice being flung at him for fireballing the character (and baby) when engaged in an act of selfless heroism? Here's hoping there isn't a relatively new parent nearby and unsecured knives in the gaming venue...


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Bill Dunn wrote:

Does the GM have evasion from the dice being flung at him for fireballing the character (and baby) when engaged in an act of selfless heroism? Here's hoping there isn't a relatively new parent nearby and unsecured knives in the gaming venue...

Pshhh, like you never fireballed a baby when you were Gming.

<.<

>.>

What's everyone looking at?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I did. It was a dragon's breath.

I applied the same rules as an attended object with improved cover (+8 AC +4 Refl and Improved Evasion).

My victim was a child though. Maybe a baby can benefit from total cover. Your call of course.


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One does not simply "carry" a baby in Pathfinder. Babies are creatures. One can drag a baby. One can reposition a baby. One can bull rush a baby. One can grapple a baby, then (if one maintains the grapple--babies can be slippery little buggers) move it.

I can only assume that this is why new parents are exhausted all the time--nonstop hustling to perform combat maneuvers just to keep up otherwise normal action economy with infant in tow.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

Blahpers, I love-hate you.


This is becoming one of those threads, isn't it...


I still haven't gotten a rules-based answer on this.

If someone is carrying a living creature, does the creature being carried count as an attended object?


In all seriousness, the closest analogue I can think of to this is a wizard carrying its familiar. The dangers of a familiar being nuked by a fireball gave rise to the familiar satchel. Otherwise, that baby is barbecue.

Housily, if your items are assumed to survive a magical attack (usually), I'd rule that anything in your containers or wrapped completely in your items is similarly protected. But that's not much help at a more brutal table.


blahpers wrote:

In all seriousness, the closest analogue I can think of to this is a wizard carrying its familiar. The dangers of a familiar being nuked by a fireball gave rise to the familiar satchel. Otherwise, that baby is barbecue.

Housily, if your items are assumed to survive a magical attack (usually), I'd rule that anything in your containers or wrapped completely in your items is similarly protected. But that's not much help at a more brutal table.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, and kind of afraid of. I hoped that I was wrong.

Seems weird to me that if a rogue puts a mouse in his pocket and completely dodges a fireball, the mouse will probably still die.


Doomed Hero wrote:
blahpers wrote:

In all seriousness, the closest analogue I can think of to this is a wizard carrying its familiar. The dangers of a familiar being nuked by a fireball gave rise to the familiar satchel. Otherwise, that baby is barbecue.

Housily, if your items are assumed to survive a magical attack (usually), I'd rule that anything in your containers or wrapped completely in your items is similarly protected. But that's not much help at a more brutal table.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, and kind of afraid of. I hoped that I was wrong.

Seems weird to me that if a rogue puts a mouse in his pocket and completely dodges a fireball, the mouse will probably still die.

Don't worry, it makes sense because Magic.

Get it? Because he dies because of the Fireball spell?

..Yeah, it's a horrible joke, I agree.


Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Stealth check.

That said, I'd probably rule that a free action could be used by the player to go prone and apply their Reflex save to the baby. Because not every situation is covered by the RTAW (Rules That Are Written.)


The rules don't make special cases for carried creatures so they have to make their own save.


What? You think that heroic actions can just be done with widely applicable rules? That is not the d&d way. If what the rogue wants to do is possible at all, it is probably a feat. And it probably has "acrobatic" and "lightning reflexes" as prerequisites...


toastedamphibian wrote:
What? You think that heroic actions can just be done with widely applicable rules? That is not the d&d way. If what the rogue wants to do is possible at all, it is probably a feat. And it probably has "acrobatic" and "lightning reflexes" as prerequisites...

Yeah, that's true. Martials can't have nice things.

On the flip side of things, Arcane Pocket is a first level spell that lasts an hour per level, and Wizards get Scribe Scroll for free.

The combination of those things makes me sad.

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