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Eldritch knight help


Advice

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So long story short i need some help building an eldritch knight.

the catch i want to use either bloodrager or barbarian for the martial half. The casting half i'm not sure, not really picky about it.

The character's long story short backstory is she was created in a laboratory by an insane shadow-mage who was trying to create life to get out of a deal he made with a demon. He sort of suceeded, resulting in her.

She is an angry amazonian amalgamation of various bloods of creatures, dragons, vampire, ect.

She has anger and aggression issues and specializes in fighting mages, as she plans on killing her ''father'' some day.

i want to play with the anger and mage fighting thing, hence Barbarian or Bloodrager.

for magic i like her using blasty type magic, for melee weapon i like the falcata, greatsword [Sword that chops] or axes, basically more brutal weapons

so yeah i little help picking between the two would be nice


Bloodrager is probably more useful overall, since you gain a Bloodline Power and can take Mad Magic if you want to.

There are various ways to get Divine Favor on a Witch or Wizard, which is a huge combat buff.

Specializing in Battering Blast can be devastating, and it's a great Eldritch Knight spell due to no-save damage and lower level. The theme of hammering targets with pure force seems to work for your concept. You could even use Furious Spell to amplify it, since Caster Level is everything with that spell.


BadBird wrote:

Bloodrager is probably more useful overall, since you gain a Bloodline Power and can take Mad Magic if you want to.

There are various ways to get Divine Favor on a Witch or Wizard, which is a huge combat buff.

Specializing in Battering Blast can be devastating, and it's a great Eldritch Knight spell due to no-save damage and lower level. The theme of hammering targets with pure force seems to work for your concept. You could even use Furious Spell to amplify it, since Caster Level is everything with that spell.

Is correct, hammering with pure force and intimidation over finesse and diplomacy is basically the theme behind how she fights.


Wizard 5 Barbarian 1 makes the most sense

I would go with Bloodrager 1, Sorcerer 4, Dragon Disciple 3 personally...2 level delayed however.


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The hardest part here is your desire to use blast-type magic, because Eldritch Knights kinda suck at that. The problem is that the Eldritch Knight (unlike the Magus) cannot fight and cast on the same turn. This means on any given turn the EK will always be weaker than specialized martial or a specialized caster, depending on which abilities he chose to use. To make him effective you need to utilize the synergy of these abilities to improve the performance of the character overall. In addition to being very feat-intensive, blasting just has no synergy at all with martial combat. I do agree with BadBird that Battering Blast is a better spell option for you since it doesn't provoke saves, but it's still going to be harder to pull off effectively in a way that works with the character.

Reach weapons work really well for an Eldritch Knight, very much as an arcane equivalent to the reach Cleric. Buff yourself with Enlarge Person and Fly and proceed to pick off enemies from well outside of their reach. You'll prep mostly buff, utility, and battlefield control spells. Generally you want to avoid spells that call for saving throws, since you'll usually have your highest attribute in strength so your casting stat will be less than impressive. However, I do like the Shadow Conjuration spell in this context since it's sometimes preferable to have a low save DC so your allies can disbelieve it more easily.

Badbird already makes the case for Bloodrager over Barbarian, and I completely agree with that. Mad Magic really makes it more appealing since you don't lock yourself out of spellcasting.

I'm not a fan of Witch Eldritch Knight, since Hexes don't scale with EK levels and tend not to mesh well with the way it's played (your at-will action is attacking, not hexing). However, it does work if you want to do it. Wizard is generally better than Sorcerer or Arcanist just by virtue of faster casting progression, but all three are perfectly good picks.

My suggestion would be to take Bloodrager at 1st level and the Combat Reflexes feat to make good use of a reach weapon, then immediately multiclass into Wizard to use Enlarge Person to greatly improve that. Take the Mad Magic feat at 3rd level, and the Favored Prestige Class feat at the 5th level for Eldritch Knight. At the 7th level you will qualify for EK and can take your first level of the PRC, at which point you take the Prestigious Spellcaster feat to improve your spellcasting. You definitely want strength as your highest attribute with this approach, with only enough intelligence to get by. This leaves very few feats remaining if you want to bolster your blasting, and if you want to spend them on combat ability that would stretch you very thin.


If there's synergy between blasting and melee combat, it's typically tactical. Spells are effective at range or as a replacement for making single standard attacks, while weapons are only at their best with a full attack. Advancing with a Rime Frigid Touch instead of charging, for example, or throwing a Battering Blast to crush an enemy caster at a distance. There's also the simple fact that throwing a control spell on round 1 is no less useful a strategy because you're going to melee on rounds 2+. And of course, EK has the advantage of throwing huge spectacular spells at top level and then falling back on combat ability, rather than worrying about the majority of combat rounds per day where they don't have a top-level spell to throw.

There are some spells that work in conjunction with melee, but not so much blasting ones. Rime or Dazing Fiery Shuriken can be swift-action thrown while in melee and crossed with Opening Volley, for example. Or Dazzling Blade done well is a huge combat advantage, for obvious reasons, and it's just a swift action to cast and a free action to discharge.

Witch/EK is for getting Divine Favor and Divine Power from Strength Patron, and possibly Archetype advantages. Hexes are just utility for them. The ability to grab Divine Favor alone makes them far stronger in combat than most EK's (though Wizards can also get Favor). It's weaker on blasting options. Synergist Witch can get *pounce* at level 8, so... there's that.

Wizards can get Divine Favor through Pact Wizard, or through taking the Faith Magic Arcane Discovery (once you prepare it once, Pearls of Power grant more castings at an affordable 1k/per). You certainly don't need Divine Favor, but it's ultimately a +4 to attack and damage, which is basically a whole other level of melee power.

Battering Blast done right goes from ok to good at CL10, and from good to nuke at CL15. An Exploiter Wizard using Potent Magic, Furious Spell and Spell Specialization: Battering Blast could be throwing CL10 as soon as they got BBlast, and CL15 by level 9. With a metamagic trait, Intensified Furious Battering Blast at CL15 is a level 4 spell that can be cast while in a rage (without needing Mad Magic) that will inflict 21d6 total force damage and trigger a +20 bullrush and a knockdown save.

So I would say that with your goals, consider Exploiter Wizard with the Faith Magic Arcane Discovery, or with the Pact Wizard Archetype as well. Then see how quickly you can rack-up Battering Blast yield.

Edit: though as I mentioned, Synergist Witch 8 gains pounce. They also have an easy way to grab multiple natural attacks and flight. So if you sacrifice the blasting angle and go Synergist Witch you could do a sword/fist/claw/bite flying pounce thing.


Thinking about it, i probably should have posted her race and the point buy thing, might help.

she's a Moroi born Dhampir, i went with a sort of the vampire blood was stronger than the trace amounts of dragon blood thing.

+2 Str, + 2 Cha, -2 Con

i'm working with a 20 point buy, so stats are adjustable for now.

i am willing to Sacrifice the blasting angle i just king of want her to be a walking apocalypse/death machine if you defy her chances are she's gonna kill you...unless your a friend that changes things, she takes care of her own.


Okay, with a Str/Cha race the Sorcerer is a lot more appealing. Especially on 20 PB you're going to be stretched a little thin so making optimal use of your racial bonuses is ideal to free up more points for the physical side. The biggest question here is how much do you value skill points. Most of your levels are going to be in 2+int classes, so with a low intelligence score you basically won't get skills. If you're okay with giving up on skills entirely, you could dump down to 7. You could possibly supplement that with the Cunning feat. Alternately you could go with a 10 or even a 12 to keep some semblance of skill in there. For your charisma, you could go as low as a 13 after racial bonus, but since you do have your racial bonus here you could easily go for as high as 16 without getting too prohibitive, which is really nice since that gives you a passable DC. Strength is your highest priority by far, and I wouldn't start with less than a 17, preferably an 18 after racial bonus. Constitution is necessary to live, and Dexterity is good for lots of things (especially if you're doing a reach weapon build).


If you aren't set on Dhampir as a race, and Elemental Annihilator Kineticist would work for the description of your concept. All-out blasting and melee. Hell, you could even pick Void as your first element to fit the shadow-mage thing.


An Elemental (Cold) Sorcerer can play with Rime Spell very effectively. Crossblooded Elemental (Cold) and Draconic (Silver) with Blood Havoc can throw any elemental spell as a +2 per die cold spell. Adding Blood Intensity as well makes spells even meaner, especially if crossed with Furious Spell.

Blade Tutor Spirit is an option for improving attack on a Sorcerer, since they lack a shorter term buff.

Id Rager Bloodrager with Anger makes perfect sense with your concept, and you can cross Id Rager with Urban Bloodrager for much less of an AC hit (and no messing with CON in a Rage). Free Power Attack and +6STR is yes.

Of course, even with a STR/CHA spread, a pouncing Divine Power Witch/EK is still almost certainly the deadliest combatant in the long run. Ability spread ultimately counts less than colossal buffs and flying pounces.


She's not the shadow mage, her father is. She wouldn't be caught dead using the same magics as him, The hate is serious...

Dhampir i'm not set on but i do prefer it.

And kineticist i don't like how it works, i like the concept but it seems entirely to weak in my opinion.

A friend of mine mentioned id rager and primalist when i was talking about this with him. i've yet to check them out but i will. i do know urban bloodrager, and i like it. messing with con and ac is something i generally avoid, i like my survivability.

i was considering bloodlines and Draconic is my favorite for this, though with her backstory anything can work.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Have you considered a Rage Prophet? It's for barbarian/oracles, not sorcerers, but there are some pretty blasty mysteries.


As a Sorcerer with a STR/CHA bonus, you could always build towards actually using strong spell DCs. The Fey Arcana grants an awesome +2 to all Enchantment(Compulsion) spells, so you could combine really mean Enchantments with melee combat. I know that's not where you were going with this, but think about how appropriately twisted it is:

*Hideous Laughter: curse the target to flop around laughing while it's getting mauled to death. Just vicious. Might as well call it Hideous Slaughter. As a level 2 spell, it's a good candidate for using Persistent Spell, at which point it's almost a death-sentence. By manic laughter.

*Confusion: speaks for itself really. Cause a whole pack of goons to suddenly lose it and go berserk/comatose.

*Unadulterated Loathing: make something loathe you so much that they can't do anything but get nauseated and try to flee (badly). This one is specifically savage when you're a melee character holding a big weapon who can jump the victim round after round as they hopelessly try to flee, nauseated. Herd the poor bastard around for fun; it lasts days.


If you can squeeze in Dazing Spell (eventually better with Persistent Spell), you can blast and stun a whole bunch of enemies, then go to town whacking them. Which brings up an idea:

What if -- instead of trying to multiclass a 9/9 spellcasting, 1/2 BAB class in and then get into a prestige class, you just went Metamagic Rager? At 5th level, this lets you use rounds of (Blood)Rage to power metamagic feats (even if you are not currently in Bloodrage), and you can also take Metamagic Feats for Bloodline Feats (this replaces Improved Uncanny Dodge, and would probably be ruled as altering Bloodline Feats, but doesn't alter anything else, so conceivably you could combine it with some other archetypes, although an awful lot of them also replace Improved Uncanny Dodge). Note that since all your casting will be Bloodrager casting, you won't need Mad Magic. Now, this gives an obvious problem of shortage of rounds of Bloodrage, because it costs 2 rounds of Bloodrage for every spell level increase of the Metamagic Feat (and the Constitution penalty of Moroi-born Dhampir makes this worse, even if you try to compensate in the point buy). So on top of Metamagic Rager, add VMC Barbarian:

  • At 3rd level this gives you Rage, which works the same as Bloodrage, so even if some jerk your GM rules that it is a separate pool, you can still use it for the same things -- although it starts out slightly weaker than Extra Rage, as you level up this effectively becomes a scaling Super Extra Rage feat (easily worth the feat taken by VMC Barbarian);
  • At 7th level, it gives you Uncanny Dodge, which will combine with the Uncanny Dodge that Metamagic Rager DOESN'T trade out to give you Improved Uncanny Dodge back in case you get surrounded by enemies that save or take too long to get rid of Dazed enemies and they snap out of it (worth the feat taken by VMC Barbarian);
  • At 11th level, it gives you a Rage Power (worth the feat taken by VMC Barbarian);
  • At 15th level, it gives you DR 3/-, which will stack with your existing DR unless you traded that out (probably not worth a feat by itself, but worth the feat taken by VMC Barbarian if you didn't trade out existing DR, so that it has something to stack on top of);
  • At 19th level, it gives you Greater Rage (a waste of the feat taken by VMC Barbarian since you already have Greater Bloodrage and are 1 level away from getting Mighty Bloodrage, but you're probably not going to get to 19th level anyway).
If you have a preferred blast, like Fireball, try to squeeze in Spell Perfection so that you only have to pay for Persistent Spell with (Blood)Rage rounds, and can squeeze in the Dazing Spell for free. Also try to squeeze in Elemental Spell in case you are up against things with Immunity to the elemental energy type of your preferred blasting spell. Since you are probably going to want Power Attack anyway, and have the potential to Daze a bunch of enemies clustered together where you can whack then from the same place, you may want to get Cleave and Great Cleave. Unfortunately, you are not a Dwarf, so you won't be able to get Cleave Through (lets you take a 5 foot step in the middle of use of Cleave/Great Cleave), but you should still try to get a Mighty Cleaving weapon.

The following Bloodrager Bloodlines complement this build: Aberrant, Abyssal, Arcane, Fey (if your creator was into that sort of thing), Infernal, Shadow, Shapechanger, and Undead.


Given the Vampire blooded theme you're going for blasting is made kind of awkward from a damage perspective.

I saw someone up thread suggest going cross blooded Elemental Cold/White Silver Dragon and taking Blood havok. This would work, were it not for the fact that cross blooded alters the way the first level bloodline power which means you can't take it at level one. You have to use the level 7 bloodline feat.

So yeah sticking to the vampire'sh theme makes blasting kinda tricky.

To make blasting work the easiest way to go would be, either Draconic+Blood Havok for the cold damage.
or
Orc+Blood Havok for battering blast. (I personally think this would be really kewl on a raging eldritch knight.)

If you wanna stick with the vampire theme, with some blasting the way I'd suggest to go would be to use Rime spells to entangle your enemies in ice and then slaughter them in melee.

For that bloodline's of interest would be the Boreal Bloodline which is all about frost giants, you could still swap the first level bloodline power for Havok for some more damage. Or Elemental cold.

Or you could make a witch one, since they have so much going for them in the cold theme anyway. Do what BadBird is suggesting and take the patron that grants Divine Favor or go in on the cold theme with a winter witch, although I personally don't think thats a good idea. Or you could take White Haired witch for the primary natural attack it grants.


like i said i'm willing to not do the blasty thing, that's just my favorite kind of casting. my least favorite being summoning. but i am willing to do most anything with the spells and such so long as there's a theme so yeah enchantment focus is a possibility.

That said, i can drop the Eldritch knight idea if it makes thing better and someone has a better build idea, though i prefer having higher level casting cause it fits with what i imagine she can do. That said i'm pretty open to idea's, my classification of eldritch knight here is could really be any idea similar to what it does. for example imagine dragon disciple could work in a similar manner, with the exception that it'd be more melee focus i assume. The only real qualification is ''walking apocalypse''.

I don't really have a skill loadout idea for her other than a few useful or on theme ones, intimidate, climb, swim, spellcraft, knowledge arcana.

being an amalgamation of bloods vampire is just what i'm going with for now, she could realistically use anything.

i've seen divine favor come up more than a few times, i know what it does and it's really useful to be honest, if i find a way to pick it up i will.

Blood havok, mad magic, i need to look at as i've never read it. but i'll assume they're useful and take a look.

recommended classes so far

Bloodrager over barbarian

Sorcerer preferred, due to the racial Cha bonus. Draconic, elemental [cold], boreal, fey bloodlines have come up, i'm alright with all of them.

Witch has also been recommended.


There are a couple ways you could go if you're open to anything.

I'd suggest the Draconic Mystery Oracle it is potentially very powerful.

If you're willing to go the Orc sorc dip with blood havoc then thats your best road to blasting. Using battering blast of course.


You can go straight wizard VMC war oracle into EK and take Prestigious Spellcaster and lose no caster levels.

Or you could do the same thing with sorcerer and still get the bloodline you want.

Witch is also an option.


Bloodragers and Kineticists are great for this sort of concept, especially the former. I'm not sure why all the multiclassing is needed. Maybe Bloodrager VMC Oracle?

For anti-spellcaster stuff, you could be a Primalist Bloodrager to pick up Superstition and Witch-Hunter, and I think Primalist can be used with Metamagic Rager.
Remember that Bloodline Mutations (Blood Havoc, Blood Intensity, and Blood Piercing) can be taken as a Bloodline Bonus Feat instead if you don't want to give up a Bloodline Power or you want to swap out that Power for Rage Powers.


If the objective is fairly high casting levels with very strong combat ability, there are lots of options on both the arcane and divine side.

Shaman with Battle Spirit and a martial dip is a total monster in combat and has high level casting. Barbarian/Oracle has extremely good synergy.

You probably want to narrow the concept down a bit here, or this is just going to be a parade of endless good options. Arcane or Divine? Charisma, Intelligence or (angry) Wisdom?

Edit: I'd guess the single most wrecking-ball option as far as melee goes would probably be Bloodrager 1/ Strength Patron Ley-Line Guardian Witch 4/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Eldritch Knight. Ridiculous strength, colossal buffs, two-hander. Casting stat bonus is pretty irrelevant.


Charisma based casting would work best seeing as she's a Str/Cha positive race. i'd like arcane but if divine can somehow do blasting or damage dealing spells i can go with that instead.

though the only real requirement is barbarian or bloodrager. i want to play with rage.

but yeah the basic concept is strong melee combat with high level casting.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I played a fun dwarf barbarian 1/magus X (3 to 6 or 7).

I used a dwarven waraxe, so I could do two-handed raging Power Attacks or one-handed Spell Combat and Spell Strikes. With Berserker of the Society, I had 9 or 10 rounds of rage per day, which was good enough for 1 or 2 combats per day. I could self-buff before combat with enlarge person and then rage and Power Attack. I had Combat Reflexes so I could get off a couple AoOs per round (even with the Dex reduction from enlarge person). I could use Spellstrike to nova with shocking grasp or Spell Combat to use some close-up blasts or debuffs like burning hands or color spray.

You could do something similar, maybe take Extra Rage or a second level in barbarian (and pick up the Moment of Clarity rage power) if you wanted to rage in every combat. I think the Eldritch Scion archetype lets you use Charisma instead of Intelligence for magus casting.

EDIT:

There might be better synergy with a bloodrager/Eldritch Scion magus.


Then yeah I'd go Bloodrager X/Orc blooded blood havoc Sorc.

Rage murder things with a big sword/reach weapon when they're within reach. When they're not blast them into a thin red mist with battering blast.

Str build for melee only needs Power attack or Power attack and combat reflexes for reach.

Which is good because for blasting you're gonna want

Spell Focus
Spell Specialization
Mages' Tattoo
Spell Penetration
3x Meta feats
Spell Perfection


Blood Rage

You don't need martial levels for rage or qualifying for EK.


Where are they getting Martial Prof from?


That reminds me, how many levels of rager am i looking at putting into? i do know that the more i do the morenit cuts into my casting, so any idea of what the balance should be?


Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:
but yeah the basic concept is strong melee combat with high level casting.

So basically you want to do everything, but also specifically want Rage.

2 Levels of Barbarian, get the Moment of Clarity Rage Power. 3 Levels of Oracle, Battle Mystery for the Weapon Mastery and Resiliency Revelations might be good, and take the Lame Curse. 10 levels of Rage Prophet. 5 Levels of Oracle to finish it off.
You'll need Extra Rage once or twice for more Rage rounds. Take Extra Rage Power for Superstition, maybe multiple times so you can get Witch Hunter or something you can Rage Cycle later on, or to get the three Beast Totem Powers. You'll also want the Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster feats, and possibly the Magical Knack trait. Oh, yeah, and Power Attack, obviously.


Well, CHA bonus or not, I would personally probably still go Exploiter Wizard for your concept. You can dump CHA to a 7/9, which is very appropriate for a character who's naturally attractive and charismatic, but also full of anger and somewhat disturbing. It's much easier for a Wizard to dump CHA than a Sorcerer to dump INT, so Wizards tend to have a natural ability score advantage anyhow; and they're ironically still often better at intimidate since they have skill points to spend. Maybe: 15/17, 14, 14\12, 15, 10, 7/9, or end with 8, 8/10.

Exploiter Wizard means you can use Potent Magic and Spell Specialization (INT requirement) on top of Furious Spell to seriously overload Battering Blast, and hit that 15CL sweet spot for 21d6 much, much sooner.

The other extremely useful and thematic thing about going Wizard is that you can take the Faith Magic Arcane Discovery, so that Ragathiel can grant you Divine Favor. So that you can turn the greatsword head-chopping up to 11.


I might do what Badbird is suggesting, seems like a workable idea for my original intent.

bloodrager [insert undecided archetype here]/exploiter wizard/ EK

that seems to be the basics i need to get started, i'm assuming 2-3 levels of Rager, then Wizard until i qualify for Eldritch knight? or skip Ek and just work with the Wizard with a rager dip idea?


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Where are they getting Martial Prof from?

VMC Oracle. Select the Battle Mystery at 1st level then the Skill at Arms Revelation at 3rd.


Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

I might do what Badbird is suggesting, seems like a workable idea for my original intent.

bloodrager [insert undecided archetype here]/exploiter wizard/ EK

that seems to be the basics i need to get started, i'm assuming 2-3 levels of Rager, then Wizard until i qualify for Eldritch knight? or skip Ek and just work with the Wizard with a rager dip idea?

I'd go one level of Urban Id Rager Bloodrager with the Anger Avatar. With that, Bloodrage grants +6STR, -2DEX, and free Power Attack. CON and AC don't change. All you need is one level; gain more rage rounds with Extra Rage and maybe the Berserker of the Society Trait. Then 5-6 Exploiter Wizard to qualify for EK (6 rounds out BAB and gains an arcane point). Then EK. This means you lose only 2 wizard casting levels (and no CL with Magical Knack), you have all the benefits of rage, and you lose only 3 BAB.

Grand Lodge

BadBird wrote:
Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

I might do what Badbird is suggesting, seems like a workable idea for my original intent.

bloodrager [insert undecided archetype here]/exploiter wizard/ EK

that seems to be the basics i need to get started, i'm assuming 2-3 levels of Rager, then Wizard until i qualify for Eldritch knight? or skip Ek and just work with the Wizard with a rager dip idea?

I'd go one level of Urban Id Rager Bloodrager with the Anger Avatar. With that, Bloodrage grants +6STR, -2DEX, and free Power Attack. CON and AC don't change. All you need is one level; gain more rage rounds with Extra Rage and maybe the Berserker of the Society Trait. Then 5-6 Exploiter Wizard to qualify for EK (6 rounds out BAB and gains an arcane point). Then EK. This means you lose only 2 wizard casting levels (and no CL with Magical Knack), you have all the benefits of rage, and you lose only 3 BAB.

One correction berserker requires being a barbarian to take.


Thanks for the help everyone, i think i have everything i need now.

urban id rager - exploiter wizard - Eldritch knight.

still open to suggestions if anyone has anything further but otherwise i think i'm all set.


Grandlounge wrote:
BadBird wrote:
Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

I might do what Badbird is suggesting, seems like a workable idea for my original intent.

bloodrager [insert undecided archetype here]/exploiter wizard/ EK

that seems to be the basics i need to get started, i'm assuming 2-3 levels of Rager, then Wizard until i qualify for Eldritch knight? or skip Ek and just work with the Wizard with a rager dip idea?

I'd go one level of Urban Id Rager Bloodrager with the Anger Avatar. With that, Bloodrage grants +6STR, -2DEX, and free Power Attack. CON and AC don't change. All you need is one level; gain more rage rounds with Extra Rage and maybe the Berserker of the Society Trait. Then 5-6 Exploiter Wizard to qualify for EK (6 rounds out BAB and gains an arcane point). Then EK. This means you lose only 2 wizard casting levels (and no CL with Magical Knack), you have all the benefits of rage, and you lose only 3 BAB.
One correction berserker requires being a barbarian to take.

True, but it's a logical thing for a GM to wave-in what with parent class and the fact that Bloodrage reads as "this = rage".

Grand Lodge

It's not the bloodrage as rage issue. The "of society" traits are written with a specific requirement of classes. A gm can wave it if they like, I would, but characters have to be of the class, actually having to be a bard, barbarian, and druid to take them in the first place.


Grandlounge wrote:

It's not the bloodrage as rage issue. The "of society" traits are written with a specific requirement of classes. A gm can wave it if they like, I would, but characters have to be of the class, actually having to be a bard, barbarian, and druid to take them in the first place.

I said it's logical to wave-in due to class and ability overlap, not that it works by RAW.

Anyhow, there's already a lot of trait demand on such a build with Magical Knack being vital and Wayang Spellhunter and Fate's Favored being very, very useful.


But this character has a very specific backstory. Wayang Spellhunter doesn't fit.
Also, Wayangs use a ton of Shadow magic.

Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:
She's not the shadow mage, her father is. She wouldn't be caught dead using the same magics as him, The hate is serious...


So flavor Wayang Spellhunter as something else? That's what most do. It's just Magical Lineage that's regional.


why Eldritch knight at all?

3 better options in my eyes:
1. shaman of battle with 1 monk level can flurry great sword
2. Evangelist heroism cleric will have HUGE bonuses with spells and bard boost, to himself and to entire party. going guided hand feat will allow high to hit and spell DC of a full caster or dip 1 into fighter for armors.
3. a full magus. hexcrafter is even better.


Just a fair warning: If you Choose Wizard, make sure your GM allows easy access to new spells, because levels in a Prestige class won't add to your spellbook. If that's a problem...Probably go sorcerer. Though my preferred choice is Skald for an Eldritch Knight.


yeah new spells are a problem, thats something i'll have to figure out. Still considering sorcerer just because it seems like it could be better.

@666bender
Eldritch knight over those other choices because it help combine what i want to do. None of the things you listed fit what i'm doing. Specially the full magus hexcrafter thing. Are there better options? yes, but this one is workable and fun.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Where are they getting Martial Prof from?

VMC battle oracle revelation.


Sorcerer can work fine, but they lack the same ability to stack up Battering Blast CL or grab Divine Favor. So on a Sorcerer I'd go with a setup that plays to their strengths, like maybe Bloodrager 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Eldritch Knight to get better combat bonuses - though of course, they lose another spell level that way.

The main issues with Sorcerer are that they lack a way to pick up Divine Favor, and they are behind in spell levels. Divine Favor isn't necessary of course, but a spell that ultimately grants a +4 to attack and damage is such a huge upgrade that it's hard to turn down if the objective is heavy combat power.

EK's are typically grossly underestimated by people who just eye-ball the class with theorycrafting and decide 'it's bad' and 'just be a Magus' or whatever. It's not inevitable that it's a weaker option (especially at higher levels), but reaching full potential with an EK requires carefully picking strong options - like starting with one level in a rage class.


You could enter EK one level shorter on BadBird's suggestion. You only need 3 levels of DD, HOWEVER, I could definatly see taking that extra level for the +2 Str/_+1 Nat Armor bonuses


The sorcerer won't have the same CL as other classes but with blood havoc+orc bloodline they do get +2 damage per dice.


I'm thinking Sorcerer Dragon disciple is rather appealing, Blood havoc is awesome. i'd have to go dragon bloodline but i'm cool with that.

the strength and armor bonuses are really nice, and the d12 hp could help make up for sorcerer levels lower hp.

It's something i have to think on now.


I had a concept build for a Sorcerer/DD/EK that used Fey/Draconic Crossblooded, so that it had both a +2DC on Enchantment and the Draconic +1 to blasting dice. Spell levels and spells known are very limited, but when the point is to focus on select spells with metamagic it doesn't matter so much. Being able to choose between a few select fire and enchantment spells is quite versatile.

For a combat Sorcerer, it's possible to combine the Imperious Bloodline and Encouraging Spell to turn Contagious Zeal into a +4 attack and damage spell that you can share with others. However, Imperious requires Human, and Encouraging Contagious Zeal is a level 3-4 spell.

Favored Prestige Class -> Prestigious Spellcaster will take back a level of spellcasting and grant a little more HP, but at the cost of two feats.


If you're going to go Dragon Disciple, any reason not to stick with it? Dragon Disciple 4 + Eldritch Knight 10 has 2 losses of spellcasting progression instead of (3 if you stuck with Dragon Disciple all the way) and better BAB, but gives you more somewhat fewer points and a worse Will Save, and doesn't give you as many ability score boosts as Dragon Disciple, and doesn't boost your Bloodline as much; admittedly, if you are feat-starved, you might really need the Bonus Combat Feats from Eldritch Knight. So for the cost of 1 more rank of Prestigious Spellcaster (3 instead of 2), going with Dragon Disciple all the way might be more what you need (unless as mentioned-above you are too feat-starved). Then, if you have more levels to gain, start going Eldritch Knight (needs yet another rank of Prestigious Spellcaster, but gives you a Bonus Combat Feat right away).


In general, sticking with Dragon Disciple loses both more spell levels and more BAB, which are arguably the two most important factors for a gish-type warrior. There's ways around some of the losses, and there are beneficial DD abilities, but overall... those losses hit right to the core of a caster/melee. It seems to me like most of the higher DD abilities are kind of pointless anyhow, when compared to stacking up stronger casting that can do the same things. Blasting > Breath, Overland Flight > Wings, casting Form of the Dragon with spells > Form of the Dragon limited SLA's, etc. For what it costs to keep digging out your casting with Prestigious Spellcaster, you could be building towards Dimensional Dervish and/or Spell Perfection.


Prestigious spell caster can be taken multiple times for the same prestige class.

Thus you could lose NO caster levels with dragon disciple and 4 feats.

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