^Above I extended this concept to taking Prestigious Spellcaster in all 3 ranks needed for the full Dragon Disciple and then 1 rank for Eldritch Knight after you finish Dragon Disciple, but come to think of it, Rules As Written, this may not be allowed -- the text for Favored Prestige Class does not let you take it for more than 1 prestige class, and likewise for Prestigious Spellcaster (the latter being specifically allowed in multiple ranks for the same prestige class), and even if it was, you'd have to be going seriously Epic for this to be worthwhile (4 feats for Dragon Disciple and 2 for Eldritch Knight -- that only leaves you with 4 feats before considering bonus feats awarded by classes, or 5 feats if you are Human).
It's ironic that I can see spending two feats on saving one casting level with Prestigious Spellcaster, but I can't really see spending four to rescue Disciple. High level feats on a Caster/Melee hybrid are already just so damn valuable...
Yes you can only pick one class with those feats.
I like dragon disciple on sorcerer. You give up human favored class bonus, but gain a prestige class. Combine that with eldritch heritage abyssal and you end up with a tough fullcaster that can do melee combat in a pinch.
Personally, I like combining an elven Arcanist using the Elven Battle Style feats to get INT to damage. The arcanist has an archetype, the Blade Adept practically designed to go EK.
The main issue is, unless you're also using Weapon Master's Handbook, or 3.x materials, there's seemingly no one handed elven weapon so you're gonna be stuck with a rapier or longsword.
I also like a single level of fighter, for free feats and proficiency.
Plus, skills.
The advantage of this character is i can pick whatever bloodline i want, being a frankestein's monster type thing.
So a crossblooded Abyssal dragon thing is appealing.
so there seems to be some debate over DD or EK.
i am open to going full DD, it's one of those prestige classes i like. that and mammoth rider, but that doesn't work here.
luckily i don't need to pick that just yet, we're starting at lvl four.
1 problem i do want to address is the lack of armor class on a melee caster, any ideas?
The advantage of this character is i can pick whatever bloodline i want, being a frankestein's monster type thing.
So a crossblooded Abyssal dragon thing is appealing.
so there seems to be some debate over DD or EK.
i am open to going full DD, it's one of those prestige classes i like. that and mammoth rider, but that doesn't work here.
luckily i don't need to pick that just yet, we're starting at lvl four.
1 problem i do want to address is the lack of armor class on a melee caster, any ideas?
Add Still Spell to all your spells, prepare true strike in all your 1st level slots, wear full plate.
There is also Arcane Armor Proficiency or something, but it takes a swift action to activate.
Magus is a classic for a reason.
...4DD/6EK: -3 spell levels, -1BAB, +2 combat feats.
...4DD/6EK, Prestige Caster x1: -2 spell levels, -1 BAB, -2 feats, +2 combat feats.
...DD10: -4 spell levels, -3BAB.
...DD10, Prestige Caster x1: -3 spell levels, -3BAB, -2 feats.
...DD10, Prestige Caster x3: -1 spell level, -3BAB, -4 feats.
For a melee/caster who wants to be strong in combat, and shape spellcasting to aid combat and/or do specialized things, BAB and feats are extremely useful to have. Limited selection bloodline feats aren't a replacement. Pure DD makes more sense if you don't want to have to qualify for EK, but you want a Bloodrager level anyhow.
Arcane Armor Training lets you wear a mithral kikko without any spell failure. That's the easy way to get a decent baseline AC.
Unhindering Shield allows using a buckler with no restrictions, and the prerequisite is +1AC.
The Crane Style chain is a huge AC boost, but requires specific choices and feats, and only caps with higher BAB.
Draconic bonus AC is also a big help; like with other DD features, it's mostly picked up with DD4.
The advantage of this character is i can pick whatever bloodline i want, being a frankestein's monster type thing.
So a crossblooded Abyssal dragon thing is appealing.
so there seems to be some debate over DD or EK.
i am open to going full DD, it's one of those prestige classes i like. that and mammoth rider, but that doesn't work here.
luckily i don't need to pick that just yet, we're starting at lvl four.
1 problem i do want to address is the lack of armor class on a melee caster, any ideas?
DD plus dragon bloodlines nets you +7 nat armor with bracers of armor at +8 and with the shield spell being +4, that's +19 before rings and amulets.
Form of the dragon increases your base nat armor by 2 to 4, so it nets you +2 ac, form2 nets 3ac, and form3 nets 6ac.
A one level dip into scaled fist grants Cha to AC. Seems like a worthy dip for any dragon disciple who isn't gonna be wearing armour.
Bracers of Armor are equivalent to enhancing armor, but without the armor. So bracers of armor +8 cost 64,000, while a mithral kikko with +3, which is the same AC bonus, costs 13,000, and spending 29,000 on a +5 mithral kikko gets a 10AC armor. Simply using Mage Armor is equivalent to spending 16,000 on bracers.
A Scaled Fist dip is great for AC and Flurry, but it drops another precious casting level.
It's ironic that I can see spending two feats on saving one casting level with Prestigious Spellcaster, but I can't really see spending four to rescue Disciple. High level feats on a Caster/Melee hybrid are already just so damn valuable...
A Sorcerer 5/DD 10/Sorcerer 5 gets one more Bloodline Feat than a straight Sorcerer would, so the net cost is effectively three feats rather than four. And for those three feats they get an excellent bite attack to go with their claws, an extra use of their breath weapon per day, better wings, Form of the Dragon II twice a day, blindsense, an extra +3 to their natural armor, +4 Str, +2 Int, +2 Con, +2 to their BAB, and they get to replace ten of their d6 hit dice with d12's - all without sacrificing any spellcasting ability or Bloodline Progression. That's pretty valuable, too.
That was a conversation about going more than 4DD, not about DD in general. Full DD isn't 'bad' or anything, but bloodline feats are incredibly limited, and most DD abilities beyond 4 aren't that exciting for a character who has high level casting anyhow. Overland Flight, Blasting Spells, Form of the Dragon or Monstrous Physique as spells...
I can see pure DD with builds that don't incorporate EK easily, or don't have much casting. But I wouldn't usually go that way when I could go with things like Dimensional Dervish and/or huge spell tricks capping in Spell Perfection and/or Critical Focus feats.
This was a conversation about going more than 4DD, not about DD in general. Full DD isn't 'bad' or anything, but bloodline feats are incredibly limited, and most DD abilities beyond 4 aren't that exciting for a character who has high level casting anyhow. Overland Flight, Blasting Spells, Form of the Dragon or Monstrous Physique as spells...
I can see pure DD with builds that don't incorporate EK easily, or don't have much casting. But I wouldn't usually go that way when I could go with things like Dimensional Dervish and/or huge spell tricks capping in Spell Perfection and/or Critical Focus feats.
Sorry. The cncversation was switching between so many different builds that I misunderstood the point you were making.
Sorry. The cncversation was switching between so many different builds that I misunderstood the point you were making.This was a conversation about going more than 4DD, not about DD in general. Full DD isn't 'bad' or anything, but bloodline feats are incredibly limited, and most DD abilities beyond 4 aren't that exciting for a character who has high level casting anyhow. Overland Flight, Blasting Spells, Form of the Dragon or Monstrous Physique as spells...
I can see pure DD with builds that don't incorporate EK easily, or don't have much casting. But I wouldn't usually go that way when I could go with things like Dimensional Dervish and/or huge spell tricks capping in Spell Perfection and/or Critical Focus feats.
It was a foolishly overstated point anyhow, now that I'm reading it.
Keep in mind that you can't get extra Spells known from the sorcerer favoured class bonus with DD.
So you do lose some casting potential to gain viable melee abilities (with strength investment).
Other sorcerers are more optimal, but for a dragon sorcerer that doesn't want to play hyper careful, this is a very solid way to gain defenses and the ability to maw those guys that try to "geek the mage"