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I read these alignment threads every time I see one and I have never been impressed more than when I read the Escapist's take on alignment. I really do not have any reason to use another alignment system when I have this one on hand. To me it makes complete sense and I can use it mechanically in my Pathfinder games.
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A Paladin of Ragathiel does not require a proof of guilt, detect evil is enough to start peanut butter flaming chainsaw deathkill obedience time.Actually, this is factually untrue. To quote Ragathiel's Obedience:
Slay a proven wrongdoer in Ragathiel's name. It is not enough for the sacrifice to have an evil heart or evil intentions; the sacrifice must have committed evil or unlawful deeds.Emphasis added.
I would also strongly argue that an Evil Alignment is insufficient evidence of death-worthy offenses just in general. Even leaving aside all the ways that spell can be spoofed or just flat-out mistaken.
Oh, of course, not all who pinged detect evil qualify for the obedience. But eventually, somebody will. It's like carpet bombing, except you can reasonable weed out most of people who don't qualify.
As for spoofs and mistakes - well, there's atonement and 500 gp isn't a fortune.
I mean, D&Ds alignment system leads to such hilarity if taken seriously that I wonder if Gary and Dave didn't write it up just so they can have a kick out of people arguing over it.
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I feel like good aligned people who "carpet bomb" executing people who ping detect evil aren't going to be good aligned for very long. Completely reasonable reason for a paladin to fall there.
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Honestly, when you consider his Paladin code Ragathiel is not that terrible of a Lawful Good deity. The Obedience is the main issue.
I've just adopted the stance that his followers aren't expected to perform it every day. Or if they do, there's alot of Ragathiel followers working as executioners for the local governments :)
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Oh, of course, not all who pinged detect evil qualify for the obedience. But eventually, somebody will. It's like carpet bombing, except you can reasonable weed out most of people who don't qualify.
This is a profoundly Evil act. You'd fall immediately and quite possibly wind up at LN equally quickly.
As for spoofs and mistakes - well, there's atonement and 500 gp isn't a fortune.
Killing everyone who pings Evil, even if they actually are, is not the kinda thing an atonement alone can fix.
I mean, D&Ds alignment system leads to such hilarity if taken seriously that I wonder if Gary and Dave didn't write it up just so they can have a kick out of people arguing over it.
Alignment works fine if taken seriously. You just have to actually take it seriously rather than interpreting everything in the most literal and absurd fashion possible.
Honestly, when you consider his Paladin code Ragathiel is not that terrible of a Lawful Good deity. The Obedience is the main issue.
I've just adopted the stance that his followers aren't expected to perform it every day. Or if they do, there's alot of Ragathiel followers working as executioners for the local governments :)
I think this is actually the way that's intended to work. Ragathiel's Obedience bonus is miles better than just about anyone else's. It's clearly intended to be something you only get sometimes.
Though, as a PC, that sometimes is gonna be pretty frequent just from your standard adventuring stuff.
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Caedite eos. Novit enim Ragathiel qui sunt eius.
So your real name is Amalric? XD
I read these alignment threads every time I see one and I have never been impressed more than when I read the Escapist's take on alignment. I really do not have any reason to use another alignment system when I have this one on hand. To me it makes complete sense and I can use it mechanically in my Pathfinder games.
Who is the escapist? Do you have a link?
Also, have you read Damus' article on real alignments?
(http://easydamus.com/alignmentreal.html)
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Alignment works fine if taken seriously. You just have to actually take it seriously rather than interpreting everything in the most literal and absurd fashion possible.
I was kind of afraid I'll have to retort with some Real World Analogue ... but ... luckily ... oh man this is too easy, I need to take a shower after I type this ...
So, what's Batman's alignment?
*puts on shades, walks away*
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I read these alignment threads every time I see one and I have never been impressed more than when I read the Escapist's take on alignment. I really do not have any reason to use another alignment system when I have this one on hand. To me it makes complete sense and I can use it mechanically in my Pathfinder games.Who is the escapist? Do you have a link?
I really do not have any reason to use another alignment system when I have this one on hand.
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So, what's Batman's alignment?
*puts on shades, walks away*
Which Batman? And why should we apply Pathfinder universe alignment to a real-life (if just hardly) analog?
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Which Batman? And why should we apply Pathfinder universe alignment to a real-life (if just hardly) analog?So, what's Batman's alignment?
*puts on shades, walks away*
Which Batman? OK, let's make it a bit easier by letting go of everything pre-70s. Fine? My real life doesn't have the Joker and Penguin and Superman, if your does ... well, I ain't sure if I'm jealous. Probably a bit.
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Which Batman? OK, let's make it a bit easier by letting go of everything pre-70s. Fine? My real life doesn't have the Joker and Penguin and Superman, if your does ... well, I ain't sure if I'm jealous. Probably a bit.
The many incarnations of Batman, post-70's? Well, ok.
True Neutral. You really can't pin down a specific alignment for the guy unless you want to throw just above every non-evil alignment at him at different periods of his existence. He has a respect and appreciation for life and the innocent, but he is not above torturing 'bad guys' in order to get the job done. He is very consistent with his belief that he should not have to kill anyone, even though he SHOULD.
Let me be clear. Being True Neutral does not mean he is incapable of acting in manners that might seem lawful, chaotic, good, or evil. He accurately reflects tendencies that envelope all of this and more, just like a real person can, and should. He is a complex and well rounded character. Nothing wrong with being True Neutral. You can be a hero and still be True Neutral. You can be motivated to help others out of sheer generosity and protectiveness. It just makes you a hero that is willing to do some things a truly good guy won't do to get the job done.
Personally, I'm thinking it would be better to have a triple axi system,
Focus: Self vs Group
Style: Directing vs Flexing
Method:Constructive vs Destructive
Self being a focus on one's self and they are affected.
Group being a focus on how others are affected.
Directing being one who deliberate and tries to direct the flow of events.
Flexing being one who follows the flow of events.
Constructive being one who builds up their focus.
Destructing being one who fights threats to their focus.
Psychological motivations seem to run on Focus and Style, and archetypes seem to run on Focus with Style and Method mixed.
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Which Batman? OK, let's make it a bit easier by letting go of everything pre-70s. Fine? My real life doesn't have the Joker and Penguin and Superman, if your does ... well, I ain't sure if I'm jealous. Probably a bit.Which Batman? And why should we apply Pathfinder universe alignment to a real-life (if just hardly) analog?So, what's Batman's alignment?
*puts on shades, walks away*
That's still more than twenty different writers writing him as different Alignments. Name me a character who actually has one writer and thus a consistent characterization and I can easily give you an Alignment.
But Batman you can't stat at all in any way, not just Alignment, in any system unless you know which Batman you're talking about.
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I read these alignment threads every time I see one and I have never been impressed more than when I read the Escapist's take on alignment. I really do not have any reason to use another alignment system when I have this one on hand. To me it makes complete sense and I can use it mechanically in my Pathfinder games.Who is the escapist? Do you have a link?
Also, have you read Damus' article on real alignments?
(http://easydamus.com/alignmentreal.html)
It was linked to the word "one" in my original post.
I summarized it here for my players:
Click me for the quick notes !!!
As for easydamus, it is anything but easy. It reads like a textbook. I prefer to keep things quick and simply so I can roleplay instead of look up new rules. But that is just me...
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Treat Alignment (and other such RPG mechanics meet RL opinions topics like the Paladin code and what is a lie, what is honorable) as Houserules that need to be shared and clarified before the game begins and all shall be well :-)
BTW, that implies being opened to modify your take on alignment so that a workable compromise can be reached
I read these alignment threads every time I see one and I have never been impressed more than when I read the Escapist's take on alignment. I really do not have any reason to use another alignment system when I have this one on hand. To me it makes complete sense and I can use it mechanically in my Pathfinder games.Who is the escapist? Do you have a link?
Also, have you read Damus' article on real alignments?
(http://easydamus.com/alignmentreal.html)It was linked to the word "one" in my original post.
I summarized it here for my players:
Click me for the quick notes !!!
As for easydamus, it is anything but easy. It reads like a textbook. I prefer to keep things quick and simply so I can roleplay instead of look up new rules. But that is just me...
Somehow I missed that "one" was a link.
I think the escapist's idea is certainly workable, but it works against some things in the rules, such as monks requiring lawfulness, which is more a factor of dedication than some concept of "goodness."
As for Easy Damus, it is an article intended to get you to think about various possibilities. It wasn't so much about handing you a fleshed out ready to use rules of alignment.
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Alignment works fine if taken seriously. You just have to actually take it seriously rather than interpreting everything in the most literal and absurd fashion possible.
I was kind of afraid I'll have to retort with some Real World Analogue ... but ... luckily ... oh man this is too easy, I need to take a shower after I type this ...
So, what's Batman's alignment?
*puts on shades, walks away*