Just not sure what I am doing (Custom Magic Item)


Rules Questions


I want to add a spell like ability to a magic weapon

Level 3 Shield spell. Usable via command word, unlimited uses...I know MANY will say this is a very powerful power, but the intent is that this is a major point of his defenses...maybe I should add it as a different bonus to the weapon instead and make it totally persistent...not sure...

Assuming we go with the spell, what would the cost be? I am getting

5400 gp x 1.5=8100...obviously the cost is 1/2 that for a total of 4500 and 8 days in the lab...am I missing anything? also a DC roll of 8


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You missed step 1: Price like other items. It needs to be at least the price of bracers of armour +4.

You're actually looking at about 40,000 gp, even if you go by the table, since it's an AC bonus that's not deflection, which is bonus squared times 2,500. There's a case for doubling that to 80,000 since it's not a slot item.


Chemlak wrote:

You missed step 1: Price like other items. It needs to be at least the price of bracers of armour +4.

You're actually looking at about 40,000 gp, even if you go by the table, since it's an AC bonus that's not deflection, which is bonus squared times 2,500. There's a case for doubling that to 80,000 since it's not a slot item.

You only price it like bracers of armor +4 (or use the armor formula on the table) if it provides a constant bonus. His version needs to be activated, and it priced correctly.


Yah, I was thinking about that. It makes more sense to build it as a Shield bonus to the weapon instead. I figure that is the 2500 line. Nice thing about that is I could build it up piece by piece and not as abusive

I don't know if it would still be the double however, I would say 1.5 for the fact that it is part of the weapon

so
+1 3750 / 1875


Jeraa wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

You missed step 1: Price like other items. It needs to be at least the price of bracers of armour +4.

You're actually looking at about 40,000 gp, even if you go by the table, since it's an AC bonus that's not deflection, which is bonus squared times 2,500. There's a case for doubling that to 80,000 since it's not a slot item.

You only price it like bracers of armor +4 (or use the armor formula on the table) if it provides a constant bonus. His version needs to be activated, and it priced correctly.

With unlimited uses it basically WOULD be like Bracers (a little disadvantaged having to renew every 3 minutes, a little advantage with v. Magic Missiles, which is an ability I do want for it...)


Well...

You're asking for a command word spell effect, which has a base price of spell level x caster level x 1,800. (Core, page 550.) It's a first-level spell, which means it's available at caster level 1, for a one-minute duration per activation.

That's 1,800gp. I suppose if you're putting it on a weapon, it's sort of slotless unless you make it the equivalent of a +x enhancement bonus, which at the moment we're not. So let's double the price because it's slotless.

Now we're at 3,600gp.

Considering that if you make a +3 buckler, which grants the same +4 shield bonus to AC it'll cost 9,155gp we know we're still way, way off. Why? Because shield has no armor check penalty, negates magic missile, doesn't require proficiency, and is a force effect working against incorporeal touch, and has no arcane spell failure chance. Which is why the spell is personal.

Let's try this a different way. Let's look at a ring of force shield, which is 8,500gp. It too has no ACP or ASF, but only grants a +2 shield bonus to AC and the user has to wield the shield as though it were real. Even using the cheapest imaginary method of making this +4 (pretending the +2 heavy shield was real and adding a +2 enhancement bonus to it), you'd bring this up to 12,500gp and still not be as good as adding shield to a weapon.

Okay, let's try one more...

A weapon can have the defending property, which allows the user to shift the weapon's enhancement bonus to AC. So. We need a +4 defending weapon. That's 50,000gp on top of the masterwork weapon's price. It also still doesn't stop magic missile. This also drives the price of any other enchantments on the weapon up because it's all a +x equivalent.

Long story short, you're right that MANY will say this is very powerful. They'll say it because it is. No matter how you break the pricing down, it's in the tens of thousands of gold pieces.

I don't know the roleplay of the situation you're building, but if I was a player, I would be going a different direction if I wanted this. "Hey DM, I'm going to invest in Use Magic Device heavily. Then I would like to buy a wand of shield. Thank you." Problem solved, no custom item required. If that's too hard, well... then you have yet another bit of evidence that this isn't a cheap ability.

Addendum: Jeraa suggests using bracers of armor but those are underpriced for this purpose as well. They grant an armor bonus to AC, which doesn't stack with real armor (or mage armor), which the shield spell does. Also, the whole magic missile and incorporeal effects. Still more evidence that this is a multiple tens of thousands of gold pieces worth type of ability.

Sczarni

I would be more in the camp of tens of thousands.

The exact price would need to be worked out with your GM.


I agree

From an RP POV it has to do with my Evangelist's god being somewhat BI-Polar.

The base of his arcane bonded item is a Staff of entwined serpents. However I am going to add more to it. One goal is that it is a series of opposites

The first opposite was when I made a masterwork weapon (bent the rules) it is composed of two materials: Mitheral Silver and Darkwook

The second is the spells it can cast: Magic Missile (attack) and Shield (defense). I am not trying to "break" anything here, the concept is the bi-polarness of it all. I have no problem reducing the effect (say to +1 or +2) . The goal is the different sides of the same.

I do feel that the bonus should have to be "activated". I do want to avoid armor, natural, and deflection for mechanical reason. Shield seems the most "right" as it is what the shield spell gives...


Jason Wedel wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

You missed step 1: Price like other items. It needs to be at least the price of bracers of armour +4.

You're actually looking at about 40,000 gp, even if you go by the table, since it's an AC bonus that's not deflection, which is bonus squared times 2,500. There's a case for doubling that to 80,000 since it's not a slot item.

You only price it like bracers of armor +4 (or use the armor formula on the table) if it provides a constant bonus. His version needs to be activated, and it priced correctly.
With unlimited uses it basically WOULD be like Bracers (a little disadvantaged having to renew every 3 minutes, a little advantage with v. Magic Missiles, which is an ability I do want for it...)

Except it isn't. If it really was continuous, it would also apply when ambushed or hit by a trap unexpectedly. Since you have to activate it, it isn't guaranteed to be active in those situations. Plus, you have to spend a round in every combat activating the item. While potentially similar, an activated version is less useful overall, so would be cheaper than the equivalent bracers.


I did some backwards checking, using the ring of force shield

Assuming the squaring of bonus (safe assumption)

It would be a modifier of 2125 or a 15% discount on the 2500 line

assuming they gave a 10% discount for needing a skill (the shield proficiency) would leave 5%, which seems a reasonable discount for loosing the ability to use a normal shield, we have the cost line. I think that will be the best way to build it...

Shadow Lodge

Only Death and Madness Await You Here...

Sorry, but that line always comes to mind when pricing of custom magic items is discussed...

Personally, I think this should be pretty expensive, as it is essentially a constant +4 shield bonus to AC without requiring you to use an actual shield (unless you are completely surprised, it will be activated before combat starts). Heck, if I ever play this character again, she'll almost certainly dip into Exciter Spiritualist for the mental defenses and getting Shield as a Psychic spell (+4 Shield Bonus while power attacking with a greatsword).

The core issue with the Shield spell is that if you have an enchantment or item that generates its effects, why isn't is standard equipment for all non 'sword and board' PCs and NPCs?
It basically has to fall into one of the following three buckets:

  • Not possible at all,
  • Really Expensive, or
  • Something nearly everyone will have.
These buckets are listed in order of my personal preference.


And I actually agree that this is not the way to go about it, upon thinking about the details.

I will be going with a Shield bonus to the weapon instead, priced at 2.5k x 1.5 and build up to +4...Putting it squarely into category 2 on your list, but with the advantage of letting it build slowly (At +4 it will cost 60k)

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