Spell Perfection on Partial Casters (Bards, Paladins etc) Metamagic Cap


Rules Questions


As far as my understanding of the Spell Perfection feat goes, it allows you to apply a single metamagic effectively for free to a specific spell, as long as you don't go above 9th level.

Eg a wizard has Spell Perfection (Mass Hold Person). They can cast Persistent Mass Hold as a 7th level spell without any increase to cast time, however they cannot apply any additional metamagic (since Persistent Mass Hold has a modified level of 9 before reduction, so adding another level would take it to 10 before reduction, thus violating Spell Perfection's "total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level" restriction). Similarly they cannot cast a Quickened Mass Hold since this has a modified level of 11.

My question is, how does this change for a partial caster. For example, a 20th level Bard has Spell Perfection (Overwhelming Presence). For a wizard, this would not allow them to add any metamagic, since Overwhelming Presence is a 9th level spell. However, for a Bard, Presence is only a 6th level spell, and (even though their slots cap out at 6), Spell Perfection explicitly states that the cap is 9th level, *not* the max level you can cast. Thus can a Bard with Spell Perfection (Overwhelming Presence) cast a Persistent Overwhelming Presence even though a Wizard with the same feat and of the same level could not, since for the Bard it has a modified level of 8 and is thus within the restriction given by Spell Perfection?

Related follow-up question: If so, then what kind of metamagic rod would the Bard need to use to Quicken such a spell? Would it be a normal rod, since the spell slot used is only 6th, or would it be a greater rod, since the spell has a modified level of 8 before reduction?


TheCR155 wrote:

As far as my understanding of the Spell Perfection feat goes, it allows you to apply a single metamagic effectively for free to a specific spell, as long as you don't go above 9th level.

...

My question is, how does this change for a partial caster. For example, a 20th level Bard has Spell Perfection (Overwhelming Presence). For a wizard, this would not allow them to add any metamagic, since Overwhelming Presence is a 9th level spell. However, for a Bard, Presence is only a 6th level spell, and (even though their slots cap out at 6), Spell Perfection explicitly states that the cap is 9th level, *not* the max level you can cast. Thus can a Bard with Spell Perfection (Overwhelming Presence) cast a Persistent Overwhelming Presence even though a Wizard with the same feat and of the same level could not, since for the Bard it has a modified level of 8 and is thus within the restriction given by Spell Perfection?

Unless there's errata I'm unaware of, the bard could indeed cast such a spell. As you pointed out, the feat specifies a limit of 9th level, and also that you do not have to use an increased spell slot to cast it. So the bard would cast it using a 6th-level slot, and it would be treated as either an 8th-level spell or a 6th-level spell, as normal.

TheCR155 wrote:
Related follow-up question: If so, then what kind of metamagic rod would the Bard need to use to Quicken such a spell? Would it be a normal rod, since the spell slot used is only 6th, or would it be a greater rod, since the spell has a modified level of 8 before reduction?

Spell Perfection does not restrict you from applying further metamagic to the spell, but it does state that the fully modified level can't go above 9th level. This leads me to believe that the spell is intended to be treated as the higher level in terms of how you're casting it.

So for this use, you would need a greater rod, because the spell you're casting is effectively 8th level. For some other purposes (such as save DC) it would be treated as a 6th-level spell as per the usual metamagic rules.

It would be up to the GM to decide if the Quickened Spell from the rod would break the 9th-level cap for Spell Perfection or not. For what it's worth, I'd allow it, since the metamagic rods don't behave the same way as the metamagic feats they copy.

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