Cathulhu |
So toying with a human melee exocortex mechanic. Advanced melee weapons is must, obviously.
Is it worth taking a level of blitz soldier for +4 initiative, +10 speed, +2 to fort, will, and advanced melee weapons, but at the cost of delayed mechanic stuff?
Or, should I spend my human bonus feat on advanced melee weapon, and stay pure mechanic?
baggageboy |
Have you considered a 2 level dip in solarian? You could get steller rush. Idk if it's worth it to you, but only do it if you can delay advanced melee weapons till level 2 (which I don't think should be a big impact). It's still probably better to do the blitz dip, or just stay pure mechanic, but it's another thought you probably wouldn't consider normally that could actually work. It would be most worth considering if you are wanting to add some skills to your mechanic.
Space McMan |
What does the mechanic have to make a melee build attractive compared to a standard ranged build? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm just not terribly interested in mechanics so I haven't given them more than a skim reading.
I ask because both solarian and soldier get tools to make melee at least somewhat viable in a universe where everyone can use ranged weapons, and ranged weapons have scaling damage and excellent range. Both get an improved charge (solarian at lvl 2 and soldier at lvl 5) that provides 3x movement speed and an attack in the same round with no penalty. Solarians get reduced penalties when making full attacks with melee, and soldiers can make full attacks at the end of their improved charge. Both get features that provide additional scaling damage when making melee attacks, and both share the highest hp/stam per level to allow for taking more hits when running into the enemy position.
Additionally, while melee characters have the highest potential dpr (emphasis on potential) they pay for it by having to invest in strength, which is a far inferior stat compared to its ranged counterpart, dex. You are sacrificing a lot to build strength instead of dex on any character. Does the mechanic have the tools to make the trade off worth it?
Cathulhu |
Yeah, I'm looking at it... Pure mechanic seems better. Miracle Worker, a drone mod applied to myself at level 7, improved Overcharge at level 8, and there's technomantic dabbler at 5. Supercharge weapon once a day is still worthwhile.
At level 8... With combat tracking, improved overcharge, miracle worker (attack and damage), and supercharge weapon with a blazing doshko... Looking at +17 attack, 2d8+6d6+15 for first attack. +17 2d8+2d6+15 after supercharge, but still including overcharge and miracle worker on a standard attack.+13 2d8+15, on a full attack. Attack and damage drops by 2 one Miracle Worker turns off. Plus overclock, hyperclock, (+2 initiative, +2 Reflex, +1 AC) and boost shield (mechanic level x 2+ INT temporary hp).
Seems to make for a decently lethal melee mechanic? A hacker duelist?
Cathulhu |
What does the mechanic have to make a melee build attractive compared to a standard ranged build? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm just not terribly interested in mechanics so I haven't given them more than a skim reading.
I ask because both solarian and soldier get tools to make melee at least somewhat viable in a universe where everyone can use ranged weapons, and ranged weapons have scaling damage and excellent range. Both get an improved charge (solarian at lvl 2 and soldier at lvl 5) that provides 3x movement speed and an attack in the same round with no penalty. Solarians get reduced penalties when making full attacks with melee, and soldiers can make full attacks at the end of their improved charge. Both get features that provide additional scaling damage when making melee attacks, and both share the highest hp/stam per level to allow for taking more hits when running into the enemy position.
Additionally, while melee characters have the highest potential dpr (emphasis on potential) they pay for it by having to invest in strength, which is a far inferior stat compared to its ranged counterpart, dex. You are sacrificing a lot to build strength instead of dex on any character. Does the mechanic have the tools to make the trade off worth it?
Because, why not? The game just came out, and I enjoy experimenting with builds. By level 5, this character has a higher spike damage once/day than my buddy's highly optimized Vesk Soldier. The rest of the day, the character is no slouch on damage, and still (most likely) has more skill points, and all the class abilities involving hacking. Plus, he can use overcharge on a melee friend as a move action, and then use it on himself and strike once as a standard action. What melee soldier will say no to +1d6 at 2, +2d6 at 8, 4d6 at 14, or +7d6 at 20?
If I wanted a perfectly combat optimized mechanic, I'd make a drone using mechanic. Oh wait, that's what I'm playing in our campaign.
Dragonchess Player |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
By coincidence, I was playing around with some (mostly) "against type" concepts and came up with the following:
Vesk Ace Pilot Mechanic 1; I chose vesk for the Armor Savant racial trait
14 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 11 Int, 10 Wis, 10 Cha; more of a switch-hitter, but swap Str and Dex for a stronger melee focus
Exocortex (Skill Focus (Piloting))
Skills: Culture 1, Engineering 1, Perception 1, Piloting 1 (+10 check modifier, including Theme Knowledge and Skill Focus; the melee-focused version would have a +9)
Feats: Advanced Melee Weapon Proficiency
Gear: Assault Hammer (95 cr), Tactical Acid Dart Rifle (485 cr), Lashunta Ringwear I (415 cr), Everyday Clothing (1 cr), Hygiene Kit (3 cr), Credstick with 1 cr; for the melee-focused version, swap the Assault Hammer and Tactical Acid Dart Rifle for a Tactical Pike (475 cr) and a Needler Pistol (105 cr), or possibly a Tactical Doshko (240 cr), a Utility Scattergun (235 cr), 25 Scattergun Shells (55 cr), and a Medpatch (50 cr).
By 2nd level, switch to an Ember Flame Doshko and an Azimuth Laser Rifle to take advantage of the Overcharge mechanic trick. The biggest drawback is the low number of Resolve points (although at 5th level, with the ability score increases (probably Str, Dex, Int, and Wis) and a Personal Upgrade to boost Int to 15, it becomes OK).
At some point, also acquiring proficiency in heavy weapons may become an attractive option.
Cathulhu |
By coincidence, I was playing around with some (mostly) "against type" concepts and came up with the following:
Vesk Ace Pilot Mechanic 1; I chose vesk for the Armor Savant racial trait
14 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 11 Int, 10 Wis, 10 Cha; more of a switch-hitter, but swap Str and Dex for a stronger melee focus
Exocortex (Skill Focus (Piloting))
Skills: Culture 1, Engineering 1, Perception 1, Piloting 1 (+10 check modifier, including Theme Knowledge and Skill Focus; the melee-focused version would have a +9)
Feats: Advanced Melee Weapon Proficiency
Gear: Assault Hammer (95 cr), Tactical Acid Dart Rifle (485 cr), Lashunta Ringwear I (415 cr), Everyday Clothing (1 cr), Hygiene Kit (3 cr), Credstick with 1 cr; for the melee-focused version, swap the Assault Hammer and Tactical Acid Dart Rifle for a Tactical Pike (475 cr) and a Needler Pistol (105 cr), or possibly a Tactical Doshko (240 cr), a Utility Scattergun (235 cr), 25 Scattergun Shells (55 cr), and a Medpatch (50 cr).By 2nd level, switch to an Ember Flame Doshko and an Azimuth Laser Rifle to take advantage of the Overcharge mechanic trick. The biggest drawback is the low number of Resolve points (although at 5th level, with the ability score increases (probably Str, Dex, Int, and Wis) and a Personal Upgrade to boost Int to 15, it becomes OK).
At some point, also acquiring proficiency in heavy weapons may become an attractive option.
I think the nice thing about a switch hitter exocortex mechanic is that with a reasonable Dex and overcharge (and later, miracle worker), you are still doing reasonable damage with longarms, and not dependent on a full attack. Since you are using a standard action attack, you are retaining accuracy as well.
Deadmanwalking |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've gotta say this is one build where a two level dip, specifically in Solarian is actually a really good idea.
Basically because the big problem with a melee Exocortex Mechanic is that melee characters desperately need their Move Actions to actually get into combat...unless they have something special.
The easiest such thing to acquire in terms of how many levels it costs is, indeed, Stellar Rush.
So the build goes like this:
Str 16 Dex 13 Con 10 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 10 (Dex 15 or Int 16 if you can grab a race that gives bonuses in two of Dex, Int, and Str and a penalty in Wis or Cha...so an Android, of the races available thus far).
Go Mechanic (Exocortex) 1/Solarian 2/Mechanic X.
Your 3rd level Feat is Advanced Melee Weapon Specialization (this is neat because it's not ever a wasted Feat since you're never grabbing the third level of Solarian). Your other Feats are sorta up to you (though Step Up is highly recommended, as is Nimble Moves at 5th).
You wear Heavy Armor and use a Basic Melee Weapon at 1st when the difference is minor, then switch to an Advanced Melee Weapon pretty quick in there. Heck, you might even wind up using Stellar Weapon for a level or two.
Your Solarian dip gives you three very nice things:
1. Stellar Rush. This is why you took the dip. It allows you to use your Exocortex as a Move then charge as a Standard. That's great, and means you effectively get your Exocortex bonus for free against any opponent you have to move to get to.
2. +1 damage from Photon Mode. This is minor, but it doesn't hurt.
3. +3 Will Save. On an otherwise low Will Save class this is actually great.
Your Stellar Weapon or Armor is basically meaningless in the long run, though I'd go Stellar Weapon to have a free flashlight/letter opener, and I suppose a free Advanced Melee Weapon for a couple of levels until you invest in acquiring one.
Peat |
Closing ground would definitely be a problem. You want your Move action for a lot of things (Miracle Worker, Overcharging an ally, Combat Tracking) and also need to find a way in range to actually fight. Taking feats (Swift, Jet Dash, etc) and armor upgrades (Jump Jets to take shortcuts around terrain) could help with that a bit, but it's still going to be tricky.
Cathulhu |
I think every melee character wants to take haste when available (it's a L8 upgrade). So plan one armor upgrade as that.
Not really. Haste as written only gives you a move action if you full attack. Not great for a mechanic that's using overcharge, supercharge (via technomantic dabbler), miracle worker, etc.
Cathulhu |
Closing ground would definitely be a problem. You want your Move action for a lot of things (Miracle Worker, Overcharging an ally, Combat Tracking) and also need to find a way in range to actually fight. Taking feats (Swift, Jet Dash, etc) and armor upgrades (Jump Jets to take shortcuts around terrain) could help with that a bit, but it's still going to be tricky.
And by Swift I assume you mean Fleet, which only works on light armor.
nicholas storm |
nicholas storm wrote:I think every melee character wants to take haste when available (it's a L8 upgrade). So plan one armor upgrade as that.Not really. Haste as written only gives you a move action if you full attack. Not great for a mechanic that's using overcharge, supercharge (via technomantic dabbler), miracle worker, etc.
Up to you, but I would rather full attack than overcharge.
Cathulhu |
Cathulhu wrote:Up to you, but I would rather full attack than overcharge.nicholas storm wrote:I think every melee character wants to take haste when available (it's a L8 upgrade). So plan one armor upgrade as that.Not really. Haste as written only gives you a move action if you full attack. Not great for a mechanic that's using overcharge, supercharge (via technomantic dabbler), miracle worker, etc.
Except as a move action, you can use overcharge on your buddy. Then standard action, overcharge on yourself. Plus if you down an enemy, you'll probably want to use combat tracking, a move action, on your next target. Or use miracle worker. You're not likely to be using a full attack with a mechanic if you want the most out of the class abilities.
On top of which, Mechanic never gains more than two attacks a round, unlike Soldier and Solarion, which get three, and Operative, which get four.Peat |
What kind of stat distribution would you be thinking for that? How low to dip Intelligence, what kind of balance to have between Str and Dex? Where to put stat boosts, etc.
My thoughts before theme would be 14/12/10/16/10/10 as Human (Also looked at a build using Dwarf which meant 14/10/12/16/12/8 before theme). You could go lower for with Int but that does limit the effectiveness of some of your Mechanic abilities. I would value all that stuff over the extra +1 hit/dmg but YMMV.
Cathulhu |
Most key mechanic abilities don't have a DC. At least, the ones that affect combat. I'd go 16/14/14/13/10/10. Level five boost goes to the first four. Int of 15 by level five, in time to pick up technomantic dabbler. The only major loss is a resolve point or two.
Honestly, this makes a great switch hitter build, since none of your damage boosting abilities are weapon specific.
Peat |
Most key mechanic abilities don't have a DC. At least, the ones that affect combat. I'd go 16/14/14/13/10/10. Level five boost goes to the first four. Int of 15 by level five, in time to pick up technomantic dabbler. The only major loss is a resolve point or two.
Honestly, this makes a great switch hitter build, since none of your damage boosting abilities are weapon specific.
That's 4 points over budget. Guessing you meant Con of 10?