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Spiritual Ally and Spiritual Weapon both still force the caster to use their WIS modifier on attack rolls. This has needed changing for years, and yet new ways of gaining access to these spells have continued to be added on non-WIS casters while the spells themselves have never been updated to the new reality that casters of every type have access to them.
This was bad enough for the Oracle but at least they still have a 3/4ths BAB. But now Aether Elementalists, an otherwise cool, flavorful arcane school, have access to these spells with *no* way to make them even remotely useful.
A 12th level wizard with 14 Wisdom will have a +8 to hit with Spiritual Weapon. That is absolutely abysmal and a clear waste of a spell slot, something this spell is supposed to be an efficient use of.
PLEASE consider updating this spell so that casters use their main stat on attack rolls. Further, since Aether Elementalists are supposed to be specialized in this kind of magic, why do they not have a school ability that improves their BAB for the purposes of these spells? Even adding INT to hit, the 1/2 BAB makes hitting anything of appropriate CR pretty unlikely. If using INT, a level 11 wizard with 28 INT is still only going to have a +14 to hit and still only get a single attack per round dealing 1d8 + 3 damage.
I don't understand why spells like this are added to class lists if those classes cannot make any use of them.
What for, Rysky? The spells are marginal for a cleric or warpriest, better than that for a shaman with the feat that boosts them, but not worth preparing or casting for a wizard IMO. You will have better spells available. Obvious equivalents are flaming sphere/aggressive thundercloud & greater, but there are less direct equivalents which will be better still.
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Are their better spells they could be casting depending on the situation? Of course, there always is.
Spiritual Weapon on a wizard is *always* going to be a terrible use of that spell slot no matter what. There's a BIG difference between that and a situational spell being used outside its realm of usefulness.
It's unclear to me whether you're being coy and actually understand this, or if you really do not understand why adding these spells to wizard without errata or school abilities to make them useful is a problem.
Newer spells in a similar vein all have the caveat that the caster uses their main-casting stat, and usually their caster level as their BAB. Spiritual Weapon/Ally have been around since the CRB, and inherited super old design from 3.5. This is a problem and needs to be updated, and this problem is exacerbated by the fact that designers writing archetypes, prestige classes, feats, and whatnot seem to be doing so under the assumption that these spells can be effectively used by non-WIS casters.
Your argument thus far has been only that the wizard can technically use the spell, which has never been in question. My point has always been, why are we adding these spells to the wizard when they're so awful for that class that using them is always a bad choice? If you cannot understand my critique of this design choice, or if you think that updating the spell to be more consistent with modern design paradigms in Pathfdinder is a bad idea, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Maybe a Wizard takes the spell cause they like it?
Can you try being a little less hostile, please? Would a low Wisdom Wizard using this be the best use of their spellcasting abilities with it's current state? Most likely not. I even FAQed your original post as I would like to see this addressed.
But to say that the spell is of no use to them, or that they shouldn't have the spell or others to begin with is something I disagree with.
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I'm being prickly, not hostile.
I am prickly because, again, your argument thus far has been that wizards can technically cast the spell.
I am not interested in what people like. My critique is about the design. Wizard players can like wearing full plate mail. Wizard players can like wielding a greatsword and engaging in melee with a Red Wyrm. Wizard players can like doing whatever they want, including casting Spiritual Weapon if they have access to it. That has literally no relevance to this discussion.
I appreciate that you FAQ'd my OP. And I'd also like the reassure you that if a wizard at my table uses this spell I am not going to ruin their enjoyment of it.
And, to address your comment about a "low Wisdom wizard" all the numbers I've provided so far are for a 14 Wisdom wizard. That's hardly low Wisdom for a wizard, and is more Wisdom than I usually run with.
So, can we please abandon this red herring about what players like or don't like? That's not what I am talking about here and I am not here to take anyone's enjoyment of the game away.
Spiritual Ally and Spiritual Weapon both still force the caster to use their WIS modifier on attack rolls. This has needed changing for years, and yet new ways of gaining access to these spells have continued to be added on non-WIS casters while the spells themselves have never been updated to the new reality that casters of every type have access to them.
This was bad enough for the Oracle but at least they still have a 3/4ths BAB. But now Aether Elementalists, an otherwise cool, flavorful arcane school, have access to these spells with *no* way to make them even remotely useful.
A 12th level wizard with 14 Wisdom will have a +8 to hit with Spiritual Weapon. That is absolutely abysmal and a clear waste of a spell slot, something this spell is supposed to be an efficient use of.
PLEASE consider updating this spell so that casters use their main stat on attack rolls. Further, since Aether Elementalists are supposed to be specialized in this kind of magic, why do they not have a school ability that improves their BAB for the purposes of these spells? Even adding INT to hit, the 1/2 BAB makes hitting anything of appropriate CR pretty unlikely. If using INT, a level 11 wizard with 28 INT is still only going to have a +14 to hit and still only get a single attack per round dealing 1d8 + 3 damage.
I don't understand why spells like this are added to class lists if those classes cannot make any use of them.
Welcome to using trap spells. (And no, I don't mean spells that can be used for traps.) Spiritual Weapon/Ally has been a trap spell since day 1, even before Wizards and such could cast it, because even without them getting access to it, the scaling for it is absolute trash. The only nice thing about Spiritual Weapon was that you didn't have to add it to your list of spells known, and you could just fire it at the relevant levels, and then forget all about it later. Too bad Oracles don't get that gravy of an option.
Not every spell has to be worth the spell value. There was a thread stating an 8th level spell is trumped by the wording of a 2nd level spell doing basically the same damn thing, so stating that Spiritual Weapon/Ally is an "efficient use of spell slots" is both wrong, and also not a fair precedent to say between different spells that do different things. (In fact, Spiritual Weapon/Ally is in and of itself that very same comparison.)
Yeah, Wizards don't need bonuses to hit any more than what they already have; they already have the best spell list, casting progression, and overall abilities in the game, no need to give them more of anything. Touch AC exists for a reason, Wizards not utilizing that due to their clear weakness in physical combat is a failure that Wizard deserves.
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The game has long needed a concept of 'SAM' (spellcasting attribute modifier) as a shorthand term for 'the attribute which modifies your spellcasting, whether it be Intelligence (for a wizard or witch), Wisdom (for a cleric or druid) or Charisma (for a bard or sorcerer), so that various spells or abilities that could be available to more than one class can be modified by whatever attribute modifies spellcasting for that particular class (or archetype, etc.).
Using this sort of thing, a Wizard 'arcane clergy' archetype could gain access to one of the Domains of their chosen faith, and it's effects would be modified by the Wizard's Intelligence modifier, and not his Wisdom modifier, while a Cleric who has an archetype that gives her some of the talents of the Celestial Bloodline, in place of Domains or something, could modify those abilities with her Wisdom score, instead of Charisma.
I feel like the lack of such a simple shorthand term has led many writers of such mechanics to avoid the concept entirely, as it bloats wordcount unnecessarily to write 'whatever attribute modifies your spellcasting, such as Int for Wizards, Wis for Clerics or Cha for Sorcerers' every time you introduce a new mechanic or spell that could be used by multiple different sorts of casters (to say nothing of casters whose Archetypes change that spellcasting-modifying-attribute, such as the Empyreal or Sage Wildblooded Sorcerer options from Ultimate Magic.
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I'm being prickly, not hostile.
Ummm... what? Don't be either. Rysky was simply pointing out that your assessment that certain classes "cannot make any use of them" is hyperbole at best. It was a valid point. There's no need to disparage him.
Not every spell has to be worth the spell value.
This. Not all spells are created equal. That's just the nature of the game.
I actually DO agree with you, Sinistrad, that this spell does seem to be far less useful than it should be for no reason other than that it hasn't kept pace with newer content. However, that doesn't really make it any different from the multitudes of other spells that are also either useless, or at least extremely situational. Wizards have more than enough utility already without needing to rely on this particular spell. (That being said, I've also FAQ'd.)
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Arguments so far:
1. It's always been a terrible spell, so it's not at all a problem that it should be more terrible when a wizard gets it.
2. Wizards have enough utility already, they shouldn't need this spell.
3. Not all spells are created equal, so there's no room for criticism of spell/class design no matter how screwed up a spell becomes.
Not only are these arguments flawed in that they are not addressing the primary criticism here (that Spiritual Weapon needs to be changed to not rely on Wisdom only), but they are based on flawed ideas about wizards. Yes wizards have a lot of utility. Spiritual Weapon doesn't really increase that utility in a way that upsets game balance. Yes, it's not a great spell, so what's wrong with suggesting it shouldn't be even worse when a wizard or oracle casts it? Yes, not every spell within a given spell level is created equal, but that fact doesn't make criticisms of a spell's effectiveness null and void. If it already isn't a great 2nd level spell for clerics, then it's not at all radical to suggest that the spell should be updated to not be even worse for oracles and wizards.
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Arguments so far:
1. It's always been a terrible spell, so it's not at all a problem that it should be more terrible when a wizard gets it.
2. Wizards have enough utility already, they shouldn't need this spell.
3. Not all spells are created equal, so there's no room for criticism of spell/class design no matter how screwed up a spell becomes.
Not only are these arguments flawed in that they are not addressing the primary criticism here (that Spiritual Weapon needs to be changed to not rely on Wisdom only), but they are based on flawed ideas about wizards. Yes wizards have a lot of utility. Spiritual Weapon doesn't really increase that utility in a way that upsets game balance. Yes, it's not a great spell, so what's wrong with suggesting it shouldn't be even worse when a wizard or oracle casts it? Yes, not every spell within a given spell level is created equal, but that fact doesn't make criticisms of a spell's effectiveness null and void. If it already isn't a great 2nd level spell for clerics, then it's not at all radical to suggest that the spell should be updated to not be even worse for oracles and wizards.
Then tell your primary criticism to Paizo themselves. The PDT has a PM mailbox, by all means use it.
But fair warning, this has already been done before with Oracles, who actually get it as a base spell, and don't need some backwoods "archetype" from a wholly different class to get it. This was their response.
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The Bonded Wizard archetype gets a power that lets them create a Spiritual Weapon that uses Int. The archetype is like a cross between a Wizard and a Green Lantern.
Sinistrad, the vibe I'm getting here is this:
a) Everyone agrees with the general point that yes, the spells operating as they do is an overlooked legacy effect and that in the abstract, it would be good if they were updated.
b) Neither wizards nor clerics are exactly hurting for spells, so in the grand scheme of thing this isn't exactly a priority given the many other things people have been waiting for years to have resolved.
Is there any reason you can't just ask your GM if the Wisdom modifier wording in the spell description be re-interpreted to just mean "contributing casting modifier"? I'd be shocked if this wasn't the intention of the spell from day 1, but as Clerics were the only class that could cast them at the time, Paizo just threw Wisdom in and called it a day.
Yes, it's not a good choice. But to be honest I don't see it as a problem. Not every spell needs to be as user friendly as others. There a plenty of bad choices that can be made, this is simply another one.
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If this is for PFS, there are campaign clarifications that do what you want.
—A character who receives spiritual weapon as a bonus spell (such as an oracle mystery spell or witch patron spell) may use her primary spellcasting ability score in place of her Wisdom score when calculating the spell's attack bonus.
If it's not PFS, try suggesting to your GM they adopt the same guidance.