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Create pit + grapple


Rules Questions


The group wizard casts create pit. Can the party grappler grapple an enemy and move him into the pit without falling in himself? Would this be just like pushing someone into a fire or over a cliff?


Create Pit has sloped edges. To move someone into the main gap in the centre you have to be standing on that slope, which has a risk of falling in - Reflex save at 2 less difficulty IIRC.


Normally, the Combat Maneuver you use for that is Bull Rush, but the Move Maintain-a-Grapple Action can be taken to Move someone off the edge of a pit. Your opponent gets a free attempt to escape the Grapple, and gets a +4 on the roll.

I don't know about that Reflex Save. Sounds plausible. Where does that come from? The Spell Description of Create Pit?


With a mo to check AoN now, yes -

Quote:
In addition, the edges of the pit are sloped, and any creature ending its turn on a square adjacent to the pit must make a Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it. Creatures subjected to an effect intended to push them into the pit (such as bull rush) do not get a saving throw to avoid falling in if they are affected by the pushing effect.


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Procedure for this:
1) Maintain check (standard action) with the option to move you and your target 1/2 your speed.

CRB p200 wrote:
Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.

2) Target makes a grapple check to break free with a +4 bonus.

3) Assuming target failed, he is now over the pit while you are adjacent to it. Then you use a free action to release him over the pit, he suffers the effects of falling into the pit.

4) You use your remaining move action to away from the pit so you do not end your turn adjacent to it (and at risk of falling in when your turn ends).

Silver Crusade

Maybe the pit guy can make a save, acrobatics or climb check to avoid go down?

Silver Crusade

Is legal move, free the grab, and continue moving?

If you do that, are you not provoque aoo?

Mmm


Mondragon wrote:

Is legal move, free the grab, and continue moving?

If you do that, are you not provoque aoo?

Mmm

To move someone using grapple you have to make a grapple check, but you since you moved, you won't be able to move again.


Gauss wrote:

Procedure for this:

1) Maintain check (standard action) with the option to move you and your target 1/2 your speed.
CRB p200 wrote:
Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.

2) Target makes a grapple check to break free with a +4 bonus.

3) Assuming target failed, he is now over the pit while you are adjacent to it. Then you use a free action to release him over the pit, he suffers the effects of falling into the pit.

4) You use your remaining move action to away from the pit so you do not end your turn adjacent to it (and at risk of falling in when your turn ends).

I am quite sure this is correct.


wraithstrike wrote:
Mondragon wrote:

Is legal move, free the grab, and continue moving?

If you do that, are you not provoque aoo?

Mmm

To move someone using grapple you have to make a grapple check, but you since you moved, you won't be able to move again.

Does the Move Grapple effect count as Moving as in the Move Action called Move?

You normally can't Move after Attacking. Maybe if you have Spring Attack?

Maybe you can 5' Step away from the edge of the Pit back from the edge of the Pit?

I've never thought of this scenario before.


wraithstrike wrote:
Mondragon wrote:

Is legal move, free the grab, and continue moving?

If you do that, are you not provoque aoo?

Mmm

To move someone using grapple you have to make a grapple check, but you since you moved, you won't be able to move again.

You are not using a Move action to move, you are using a grapple's maintain check which is a standard action.

The maintain check move option does not require you to expend a second action to move, it is part of the standard action.

As a result, you still have your move action available and thus can move after releasing your grapple victim.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Mondragon wrote:

Is legal move, free the grab, and continue moving?

If you do that, are you not provoque aoo?

Mmm

To move someone using grapple you have to make a grapple check, but you since you moved, you won't be able to move again.

Does the Move Grapple effect count as Moving as in the Move Action called Move?

You normally can't Move after Attacking. Maybe if you have Spring Attack?

Maybe you can 5' Step away from the edge of the Pit back from the edge of the Pit?

I've never thought of this scenario before.

No, the "Move Grapple effect" does not count as a move action though it is moving.

You can absolutely move after attacking. Spring Attack allows you to attack DURING the move.

Here is an example of what you can do:
Attack, Move
Move, Attack
Move, Attack, Swift action to activate Quick Runner's Shirt, Move.
Spring Attack = full round action that gives you a movement of minimum 10' but less than total move speed followed by an Attack followed by the remainder of your move speed.
And...while grappling...Standard action to maintain and move 1/2 your speed (this does not take a move action, it is part of the standard action to maintain), free action to release, and then move.

No, you cannot 5' step away from the pit because you moved during your standard action (the maintain grapple check with the move option selected). You have to spend a move action to move away from the pit.


This is why you use a summoned creature that grapples well. It doesn't matter if the summoned creature falls into the pit.


Have the wizard learn battering blast. Let's you bull rush with your spell. Pushes the baddie into the pit while the grappler grapples elsewhere

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