So, we all pretty much know that the current archetypes are terrible. If you are anything other than a Soldier then taking them hurts way too badly. So... Here are some of my Homebrew Archetypes... That don't suck.
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Martial Warrior
You spent years learning how to use your hands and feet in combat. Then you took it further than anyone thought possible. Those who studied these managed to unlock powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men and women.
Level Abilities:
4th: Master of Martial Arts
All of your hand to hand attacks do an additional amount of damage equal to your base attack bonus with your hand to hand attacks, your hand to hand attacks may be lethal or non-lethal, this is chosen before the attack roll is made.
When attempting combat maneuvers gain a +2 bonus.
Example: A 4th level character, with BAB+4 would punch for 1d6 +Strength +4 damage.
8th: Fists of Iron
All of your hand to hand attacks do an additional 1d6 damage, this is in addition to the bonus gained from Master of Martial Arts.
When attempting combat maneuvers, your Master of Martial Arts bonus increases by an additional +2.
12th: Flurry of Blows
All of your hand to hand attacks do an additional 1d6 damage, this is in addition to the bonuses gained from Master of Martial Arts and Fists of Iron.
In addition, you may make three unarmed attacks when making a full attack, if you do the penalty increases from +4 to +6 for each attack.
16th: Precise strikes
All of your hand to hand attacks do an additional 1d6 damage, this is in addition to the bonuses gained from Flurry of Blows, Fists of Iron, and Master of Martial Arts.
In addition, reduce the penalty when making the full attack, with unarmed strikes only, by 1.
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This means, for example, a 12th level, full BAB, character with strength 18 and Improved Unarmed Strike would hit for:
5d6+16 (Avg 33-34)
Which is on par with the Advanced Melee Weapon the Accelerated Star Knife (which would do 4d8+16 in this same situation - Avg 38).
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Champion of Good
This is a pseudo-Paladin, but applicable to any class.
Requirements:
Only characters of the Lawful Good alignment may select the Champion of Good Archetype. Those who select the Champion of Good Archetype have their alignment changed from DESCRIPTIVE to PROSCRIPTIVE and cannot act against their alignment. Once the Celestial Spirit is bonded to the Champion's Soul.
Description:
Long ago the Paladins were the champions of the forces of Good on Golarion. While those warriors are gone, a new one has come to fill their place. Warriors who merge their souls with Celestial Spirits. These warriors become pseudo-outsiders with all of the benefits and disadvantages such a title entails.
This has only been successful with Celestial Spirits who are completely altruistic, there has never been a successful bonding with a spirit of non-Lawful Good Alignment. Attempts at Neutral and Chaotic spirits result in insanity in the bonded host. Attempts with Evil spirits result in the Evil Spirit taking full control of the host. (See Champion of Evil)
It is theorized that the Lawful Nature of the spirit allows the ordered processes of the mind to continue after the bonding as the host has their perceptions opened up to a much wider world. The fact that their actions become Proscriptive rather than Descriptive also may be the cause as only those who firmly believe in order at their core can willingly give up their free will.
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Abilities:
4th: Hero's Resolve
The Champion of Good may spend 1 Resolve Point as a Swift Action to regain Stamina Points equal to 5 times their level in the class with the Champion of Good Archetype. After this ability is used it cannot be used again until the Champion of Good completes a long rest.
8th: Champion of Good
Weapons (and spells) used by the Champion of Good are considered to have both the Axiomatic and Holy Weapon Fusion properties.
9th: Smite
The Champion of Good may spend 1 resolve point as a free action, if they do, until the end of their next turn the Champion of Good adds their Charisma bonus to their EAC/KAC and Attack Rolls with weapons or spells.
12th: Resistant to Evil and Chaos
Champions of Good gain DR/Energy Resistance equal to 1/2 their Base Attack Bonus against attacks/spells/effects from Evil/Chaotic Outsiders, Dragons, and any other Evil/Chaotic Aligned Supernatural beings.
Champions of Good also gain +2 to saves vs spells from Evil/Chaotic spellcasters regardless of them being supernatural beings or not.
Champion of Evil
Requirements:
Only characters of the Lawful Evil alignment may select the Champion of Evil Archetype. Those who select the Champion of Evil Archetype have their alignment changed from DESCRIPTIVE to PROSCRIPTIVE and cannot act against their alignment, once the Demonic Spirit is bonded to the Champion's Soul.
Description:
A corruption of the Champion of Good. Some say foolish beings who sought only power, but did not realize the price the Champion of Good made to become what they are, sought power from a darker source. By bonding themselves with Demonic Spirits they gained power, but lost their free will, becoming slaves to the dark spirits that now are permanently fused with them.
It is theorized that the Lawful Nature of the spirit allows the ordered processes of the mind to continue after the bonding as the host has their perceptions opened up to a much wider world. The fact that their actions become Proscriptive rather than Descriptive also may be the cause as only those who firmly believe in order at their core can willingly give up their free will.
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Abilities:
4th: Demons's Resolve
The Champion of Evil may spend 1 Resolve Point as a Swift Action to deal damage equal to 5 times their level in the class with the Champion of Evil Archetype to an enemy they have struck in melee combat. After this ability is used it cannot be used again until the Champion of Evil completes a long rest.
8th: Champion of Evil
Weapons (and spells) used by the Champion of Evil are considered to have both the Axiomatic and Unoly Weapon Fusion properties.
9th: Smite
The Champion of Evil may spend 1 resolve point as a free action, if they do, until the end of their next turn the Champion of Evil adds their Charisma bonus to their EAC/KAC and Attack Rolls with weapons or spells.
12th: Resistant to Good and Chaos
Champions of Evil gain DR/Energy Resistance equal to 1/2 their Base Attack Bonus against attacks/spells/effects from Good/Chaotic Outsiders, Dragons, and any other Good/Chaotic Aligned Supernatural beings.
Champions of Evil also gain +2 to saves vs spells from Good/Chaotic spellcasters regardless of them being supernatural beings or not.
Failed Champion
This is not recommended, or intended for, player characters.
Requirements:
Only characters of Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, True Neutral, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Neutral, and Chaotic Evil alignment may select the Failed Champion Archetype. Those who select the Failed Champion Archetype have their alignment changed from DESCRIPTIVE to PROSCRIPTIVE and cannot act against their alignment. Once the Celestial Spirit is bonded to the Champion's Soul.
Description:
These champions were failed attempts to create Champions of Good and Evil. People who underwent the ritual to bond with an entity, but did not possess the ordered mind. Either their minds snapped when the lawful nature of a proper spirit was bonded to them, or they bonded to something that wasn't lawful and the chaotic or static energies overwhelmed them.
It is theorized that the Lawful Nature of the spirit allows the ordered processes of the mind in successful Champions to continue after the bonding as the host has their perceptions opened up to a much wider world. The fact that their actions become Proscriptive rather than Descriptive also may be the cause as only those who firmly believe in order at their core can willingly give up their free will.
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Abilities:
None - This is not a beneficial thing, hence why it isn't intended for players.
Failed Champions who bonded with something that was neutral, or who were neutral themselves at the time (Neutral Good, True Neutral, Neutral Evil) become static entities. They do not age and they cannot gain experience. They are frozen in a state of permanency. Some still adventure, but they can not gain power, though they can still be brave champions in their own right.
Failed Champions who bonded with something that was chaotic, or who were chaotic themselves at the time (Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil) find themselves completely driven to madness. No longer able to order thoughts these beings require constant care and supervision to function. Most are kept in special asylums that are tended to by the acolytes at the Cosmonestaries.
Failed Champions who bonded to, or were, Chaotic Neutral are the most pitied. Locked between the stasis and the chaos they are incapable of action. They lapse into catatonia or simply become gibbering heaps. They are cared for by acolytes in the Cosmonoestaries.
Champion of Law
Champion of Law
Requirements:
Only characters of the Lawful Neutral alignment may select the Champion of Law Archetype. Those who select the Champion of Law Archetype have their alignment changed from DESCRIPTIVE to PROSCRIPTIVE and cannot act against their alignment. Once the Celestial Spirit is bonded to the Champion's Soul.
Description:
These are beings who were Lawful Neutral or who bonded with a Lawful Neutral spirit. It is theorized that the Lawful Nature of the spirit allows the ordered processes of the mind to continue after the bonding as the host has their perceptions opened up to a much wider world. The fact that their actions become Proscriptive rather than Descriptive also may be the cause as only those who firmly believe in order at their core can willingly give up their free will.
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Abilities:
4th: Judge's Resolve
The Champion of Law may spend 1 Resolve Point as a Swift Action to regain Stamina Points equal to 5 times their level in the class with the Champion of Law Archetype or they may deal damage equal to 5 times their level in the class with the Champion of Law Archetype to one enemy they have struck in melee combat. After this ability is used it cannot be used again until the Champion of Law completes a long rest.
8th: Champion of Law
Weapons (and spells) used by the Champion of Law are considered to have both the Axiomatic.
9th: Smite
The Champion of Law may spend 1 resolve point as a free action, if they do, until the end of their next turn the Champion of Law adds their Charisma bonus to their EAC/KAC and Attack Rolls with weapons or spells.
12th: Resistant to Chaos
Champions of Law gain DR/Energy Resistance equal to 1/2 their Base Attack Bonus against attacks/spells/effects from Chaotic Outsiders, Dragons, and any other Chaotic Aligned Supernatural beings.
Champions of Law also gain +2 to saves vs spells from Chaotic spellcasters regardless of them being supernatural beings or not.
I would like to see some archetypes that are basically a vmc multiclass for each of the starfinder classes. I'll post them if I ever get around to making them.
baggageboy wrote: I would like to see some archetypes that are basically a vmc multiclass for each of the starfinder classes. I'll post them if I ever get around to making them. I don't mind call-backs to them. I don't want them in the game though. This is Starfinder, not Pathfinder, I prefer to see Pathfinder dead and buried along with Golarion.
I don't understand, I'm not wanting anything to do with Pathfinder...
Maybe I should give an example. I'd like to be a soldier with the operative archetype for instance.
I'm with Walsh on this one. If there was a better example of "your selected class barely matters, anyone can be anything" in Pathfinder it was VMC. I'm of the mind that classes in a class based game should be distinct entities. Mixing and matching everything just waters everything down to me.
Well to each their own, but starfinder is very punishing to multiclass characters. This would be a way for people who want a multiclass concept to do so without having to be masters of the game to make it viable. Many people like multiclass concepts.
How about Hybrid Classes? O.o
So here's my first archetype, let me know what you guys think. You would not be able to take this archetype as in combination with the soldier class. Though if you took this archetype on another class and had levels in soldier that would work, but it wouldn't be very beneficial.
Soldier archetype:
Level 2:
Select either advanced melee weapons or long arms. Gain proficiency with the selected weapons group. At level 3 in the class associated with this archetype receive weapon specialization with the selected weapons group.
If you are already proficient with the selected weapon gain a combat feat for which you meet the prerequisites instead. You still receive weapon specialization with the associated weapons group at level 3.
Level 6:
Chose 1 gear boost available to a soldering. For purposes of this choice you a level 1 soldier.
Level 12:
Chose a soldier fighting style.
Gain the 1st level power associated with this fighting style.
Level 18:
Gain the 5th level power of the fighting style you chose at level 12.
Here's my second one. Note there are a couple of errors in the soldier achetype I posted earlier, but it can't edit it now. Please let me know what you guys think. I'm especially interested in the balance of these and any potential pitfalls/exploits I may be creating.
Operative archetype:
Level 2:
Choose an Operative specialization. Your specialization represents your primary area of expertise. Pick one specialization. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. The two skill associated with your specialization are both now class skills In addition your specialization grants you the skill synergy feat both of the skills associated with your specialization. You gain a free skill rank in each of those skills at each level of the class associated with this archetype (this does not allow you to exceed the maximum number of skill ranks in a single skill).
Level 6:
Gain an operative exploit.
For purposes of chosing exploits and their effects your operative level is the class level of the class associated with this archetype - 4. If you have levels in the operative class these do not stack.
Level 12:
You gain evasion. If you already have evasion form another source you gain the fleet feat instead. If you have both evasion and the fleet feat choose a combat feat for which you meet the prerequisites.
Level 18:
You gain the specialisation exploit associated with your specialization.
Note: Some exploits rely on features of the operative class that are not granted by this archetype. These exploits would not function and therefore should not be chosen.
I'd really like to get some feedback on my soldier and operative archetypes. I'm working on the envoy next, but creating something to emulate the skill specialization without being the same is a bit challenging.
Envoy Archetype
Level 2:
You gain the envoy's expertise class feature may chose 1 class skill form the envoy's skill expertise class feature. If the selected skill is not a class skill it becomes one. Unlike an envoy you must spend a resolve to activate your expertise. If you gain expertise from another source (such as levels in the envoy class) levels from this archtype do not stack. Treat the two expertise features as separate. For expertise your level is equal to your level in the class that grants this archtype and it progresses as normal.
Level 6:
Choose 1 Envoy improvisation. You may only chose improvisations available to a level 1 envoy.
Level 8:
Chose an envoy expertice talent for which you quality. You must spend a resolve to activate this talent, either on it's own or as part of activating the associated expertise.
Level 12:
Choose another skill per skill expertise. The same restrictions apply to activating this expertise as the others granted by this archetype.
Level 18:
Choose either an envoy improvisation or another expertise talent. If you chose an improvisation chose one available to a level 6 Envoy.
Mechanic Archetype
Level 2:
Gain a custom rig per the mechanic class feature.
Level 6:
Gain a mechanic trick available to a level 2 mechanic.
Level 9:
Gain the remote hack ability. Your level for this is your class level - 6.
Level 12:
You gain the expert rig.
Level 18:
You gain the miracle worker mechanic ability and may use it once per day.
Solarian archetype
Level 2:
Gain the skill adept solarian class feature. Chose an attunement Either photon or graviton. You may only choose revelations related to this attunement.
Level 6:
Gain a revelation available to a level 2 solarian.
Level 12:
Gain a revelation available to a 6th level solarian.
Level 18:
Gain a revelation available to a 10th level solarian.
baggageboy wrote: Solarian archetype
Level 2:
Gain the skill adept solarian class feature. Chose an attunement Either photon or graviton. You may only choose revelations related to this attunement.
Level 6:
Gain a revelation available to a level 2 solarian.
Level 12:
Gain a revelation available to a 6th level solarian.
Level 18:
Gain a revelation available to a 10th level solarian.
Uh... You realize this breaks Solarians right? As in this out modes them. Completely.
There's no reason to play a Solarian with this. Soldier would be far superior.
I was worried about it, and I appreciate the feedback. The solarian was a more difficult class to break down into an archtype then the others. I started with the easiest and was working my way up. I was hoping that the lack of the solar manifestation, and zenith revelations, plus being limited to a single pool ( either photon or graviton) would be enough. I considered doing something with a reduced avalie manifestation, but it's hard to keep it in a place where it would be useful, but not overshadowed a real solarian. I considered a sidewalk influence feature, but it isn't valuable to most classes.
Do you have any suggestions on how it could be tweaked/retuned? It can't be too weak or there's no reason to take it. It's especially important I think that the 12 and 18 level abilities be something that you would genuinely was as by that time a base class is getting really good options. Well unless you are a soldier. Really I think the problem is that the soldier gives up such a disproportionate amount compared to every other class.
baggageboy wrote: I was worried about it, and I appreciate the feedback. The solarian was a more difficult class to break down into an archtype then the others. I started with the easiest and was working my way up. I was hoping that the lack of the solar manifestation, and zenith revelations, plus being limited to a single pool ( either photon or graviton) would be enough. I considered doing something with a reduced avalie manifestation, but it's hard to keep it in a place where it would be useful, but not overshadowed a real solarian. I considered a sidewalk influence feature, but it isn't valuable to most classes.
Do you have any suggestions on how it could be tweaked/retuned? It can't be too weak or there's no reason to take it. It's especially important I think that the 12 and 18 level abilities be something that you would genuinely was as by that time a base class is getting really good options. Well unless you are a soldier. Really I think the problem is that the soldier gives up such a disproportionate amount compared to every other class.
I think you're unfamiliar with Solarians in general, so, here:
Most Solarians tend to use either Graviton or Photon - They don't switch as each requires a different build to use. We get Revelations from the one we don't use to keep balance, but those serve as "secondary" abilities.
Currently Solarians are the highest potential damage in the game, just ahead of Soldier (situationally) with weapon code +53 fire. Soldier csn get to weapon code +43 standard but gaining +2 for each enemy of equal or greater CR within 10 feet.
Your build would easily let any melee Soldier hit weapon code +53 fire +2 for each enemy of equal to or greater CR within 10 feet.
They would also do this without pumping Charisma, so they'd just be better.
Basically if any other class gets access to Revelations it breaks the Solarian.
The solarian is much more flexible in combat than a soldier however. Especially once they have zenith revelations beyond the ones they start with. And I didn't change the DC of revelations to something other than charisma so any revelation that has a DC someone with the archtype will be terrible at unless they do invest somewhat in charisma.
As you pointed out solarians generally do chose one mode to focus in but pick up the other revelations to maintain balance, so that you can use your zenith revelations is a timely manner. With the archtype I don't think it should grant zenith revelations so there is no incentive to chose revelations form both pools. Giving access to both pools would only allow more choices.
Hmmm perhaps the archtype would require a balanced approach. No choice, you must be balanced. Hmmmm
Now I do agree there are some revelations that can be chosen at low levels, most specifically plasma sheath, that scale very well with level. Perhaps too well for an archetype to have. Would making the archtype effective level be class level minus some amount, or class level decided by some fraction be enough to maintain balance?
I'm not too worried about soldiers having a higher damage output than the solarian as long as is doesn't get out of hand. Solarians have so many more options than soldiers in and out of combat that it isn't unreasonable for a soldier be able to best a solarian in pure damage. But it should be comparable.
What ideas do you have for alternate features and or other ways of reducing the archtype to maintain balance?
I don't want to make it so weak that other classes wouldn't consider the archtype. The soldier is going to be the big winner with any archtype because of the features designers tied to gaining an archetype. I don't want to mess with that even though it's not balanced just to maintain compatability.
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